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Featured Abomination of Desolation

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by adrian009, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    In Jesus' final sermon on the Mount of Olives He refers to the "abomination of desolation"

    Mathew 24:15-16
    "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
    Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

    What does this mean?:)
     
    #1 adrian009, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
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  2. buddhist

    buddhist Well-Known Member

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    It means to you whatever you believe it means. :D

    Unfortunately, if he truly existed, it seems Jesus was not very skilled at communicating the clear meanings of his allegories.
     
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  3. Neo Deist

    Neo Deist Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.

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    Abomination is often understand to mean an idol, because the Hebrews were commanded to not worship idols. So when that idol (statue) stands on the holy ground (ruined temple site in Jerusalem), let those who are in Judaea turn away from it.

    Keep in mind that Jesus and for several centuries after, were under Roman rule, and the Romans worshiped a pantheon of gods, with Jupiter (Zeus) as head of the gods. The sermon is basically saying "don't worship or acknowledge the gods of Rome."
     
  4. Reggie Miller

    Reggie Miller Well-Known Member

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    Daniel spoke of this in Daniel 11 & 12. He's talking about replacing God with an idol in the Temple. This is the abomination of desolation.
     
  5. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps.

    Another explanation is that He was a highly skilled communicator but spoke in a way that only the pure in heart would understand.

    For example with parables:


    Mathew 13:10-17
    "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

    He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

    For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

    Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

    And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

    For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

    But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

    For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them."
     
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  6. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you.

    I wonder if the specific verse He was alluding to was Daniel 9:27
    "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
    What does it mean in the context of the Mount of Olives Discourse?
     
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  7. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you.

    Some Christian scholars have postulated a meaning that refers to the crucifixion of Christ. Your considered opinion given your background training is appreciated. I too briefly studied at theology college.
     
  8. buddhist

    buddhist Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, perhaps not.

    But then again, I have yet to meet an anointed prophet that can both prove his anointing and authoritatively tell me the true and final meaning of anything in the Bible.
     
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  9. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Interesting. Please explain further.
     
  10. buddhist

    buddhist Well-Known Member

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    Would you agree with this: That it can be presumed that anyone who's not divinely anointed can only be giving his personal opinion and personal interpretation of anything in the Bible (or any other scripture from any other allegedly divinely-sourced religion)?
     
  11. Neo Deist

    Neo Deist Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.

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    Allow me to introduce myself! :p:D;)
     
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  12. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Of course the Christians believe He was anointed and He spoke with the Authority of the Father. The fact He was anointed by a woman of ill repute rather than a religious priest like Caiaphas makes His message of coming for the sinners rather than the saints all the more powerful. He claimed to speak for His Father in Heaven so if true there would be no greater authority.

    He did of course bring a new understanding to the Od testament but was clear that there was much more to teach. Therefore He said He would send another to educate further as the people of that time were not ready to hear more:

    John 16:12-14
    " I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

    Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you."

    The authority of those that came after we need to consider on a case by case basis.
     
  13. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    So lets hear more about your journey from Christianity to Deism. I'm intriguedo_O
     
  14. Neo Deist

    Neo Deist Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.

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    Might be easier for you to browse the Deism DIR. I have years worth of info there. I will forward you the most relevant posts.
     
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  15. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    And of course checking out the marginally authorative Wikipedia;)
     
  16. Neo Deist

    Neo Deist Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.

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    I wrote a good chunk of the entry for deism at Wikipedia. It was some years ago, but still...
     
  17. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    It makes me think it's talking about the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 ad.
     
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  18. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I will try.....

    abomination....repulsive, horrifying, disgusting....
    desolation....empty, sterile, abandoned....

    To stand in the 'holy place'.....heaven is within you
    stand well in that place

    'let them in Judea flee to the mountains....'
    not necessarily a good choice.....as it is written
    'let the mountains fall upon us....'

    more briefly ....
    stand.... in your well placed convictions
    let all others run in fear
     
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  19. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Nice to hear from someone who is engaging with this topic seriously and trying to connect the dots, not that I mind the light hearted banter either.

    Of course Jesus is giving a sermon on the Mount of Olives and had predicted the destruction of the Temple. This is an enormously significant event as it was the focal point of worship for the Jews for hundreds of years and can be traced back to Moses and the tabernacle. It also coincided with the destruction of Jerusalem. It was beginning of the Jewish diaspora and the fortunes of the Jewish people were to deteriorate badly in years to come. So there is certainly a profound theme of desolation and abomination in all of this. However I think there is more to it and reading and rereading Mathew 24 and Daniel 9 is essential.

    Any further thoughts?
     
  20. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    He was not speaking of pending history
    He was taking aim at mind and heart
    as He did with all of His teachings
     
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