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A young earth

Abram

Abraham
I found that there is a lot of smart people here that know their stuff very well. But one belief that I get beat on is the earth is old and there is no science to prove other wise.

The young earth creation perspective is the result of a literal interpretation of the description of creation in Genesis 1. The Bible says that the world was created in 6 days with the many life forms required have a functional ecosystem. Subsequently a genealogy from Adam to Jesus can be used to easily calculate the age of the world. According to this Bible chronology, the universe and the earth were created approximately 6000 years ago.

There is a ton of info out there on this and it's really amazing and will help a believer in God be able to talk science to evolution...


Instead of filling this box with my views of it here is a link that will start you on your quest for the truth...

http://genesis.amen.net/earth.html

http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/youngearth.shtml
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Abram said:
I found that there is a lot of smart people here that know their stuff very well. But one belief that I get beat on is the earth is old and there is no science to prove other wise.

The young earth creation perspective is the result of a literal interpretation of the description of creation in Genesis 1. The Bible says that the world was created in 6 days with the many life forms required have a functional ecosystem. Subsequently a genealogy from Adam to Jesus can be used to easily calculate the age of the world. According to this Bible chronology, the universe and the earth were created approximately 6000 years ago.

There is a ton of info out there on this and it's really amazing and will help a believer in God be able to talk science to evolution...


Instead of filling this box with my views of it here is a link that will start you on your quest for the truth...

http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/youngearth.shtmlhttp://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/youngearth.shtml
An ancient Hebrew myth is not the best place to start a scientific discussion.

The footnotes on your link do not go anywhere.

So, are there any scientists out there who have not used Genesis and come to your conclusions? Why not choose another myth from any other cultures? Before science, people sincerely believed in nature myths and such. Why choose this one if you don't need any empirical evidence?
 

Abram

Abraham
angellous_evangellous said:
The footnotes on your link do not go anywhere.
huh:confused: works for me?

So, are there any scientists out there who have not used Genesis and come to your conclusions? Why not choose another myth from any other cultures? Before science, people sincerely believed in nature myths and such. Why choose this one if you don't need any empirical evidence?
yes, on the other side of that link?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Abram said:
huh:confused: works for me?

yes, on the other side of that link?
I still can't get it to work. I checked other pages on the site, and I see footnote numbers that don't coorespond to citations.:banghead3
 
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A. Leaf

Guest
Which is more important? The crop that grew last year? Or the crop we plant for this year?
Personally instead of people worrying about our evolution or wanting to venture into space lets work as a collective to end the suffering of life on earth e.g poverty, Then use all our minds the right way to work on equations for creation that have happened in the past.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Abram, I too have found much evidence of a young earth and Noah's Flood, and believe the Bible to be true and accurate on these things. You will soon see, that most folks here don't believe like we do, so just wanted to give you a heads up. Its nice that you posted your belief, takes guts to stand. For those willing to look at our beliefs, there are numerous creation science sites you may google. I getting out now before all the naysayers come in. Peace!
 

Abram

Abraham
Freelancer7 said:
Which is more important? The crop that grew last year? Or the crop we plant for this year?
Personally instead of people worrying about our evolution or wanting to venture into space lets work as a collective to end the suffering of life on earth e.g poverty, Then use all our minds the right way to work on equations for creation that have happened in the past.
I agree very much with you. I have enough faith that I'm over it. The fact is, science can prove or disprove anything. It all depends on the beliefs of the one doing the study. But if your happy go lucky Christian is looking for a way for science to back thier belief, here you go. Don't let these science people bully us around.
 

Scarlett Wampus

psychonaut
Abram I'm sorry dude but the statements on those webpages won't carry much water with anyone other than christians who share the same need to believe in creationism over other theories.
 
Abram said:
The fact is, science can prove or disprove anything. It all depends on the beliefs of the one doing the study.
No, Abram, that's simply not true. The results of scientific experiments do not depend on the beliefs of the experimenters. If I put a thermometer in boiling water, it's going to read 100 degrees celsius no matter what anyone believes. Furthermore, if you measure the radiation being emitted from atomic nuclei in ancient rocks, you will find levels of radiation that could only have come from rocks that are far older than 6,000 years no matter what you, the experimenter, believe.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If sedimentation and atomic decay rates are too abstract or spooky for you to get a grasp of, how about something as straightforeward as dendrochronology? Dendrochronological records can be traced further back than 6,000 years.
 

standing_on_one_foot

Well-Known Member
Here's an interesting one...there are stars that are more than 6000 lightyears away that we can see. If the universe has only been around that long, the light wouldn't have reached us yet. Or is it only this planet that's 6000 years old, which leads to some other questions (why G-d would need to do things seperately, for example).
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Jayhawker Soule said:
No! Rather, stand tall and proudly proclaim your commitment to ignorance. :rolleyes:
Damn you've gotten funny. New relationship perhaps? :clap
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Abram said:
I agree very much with you. I have enough faith that I'm over it. The fact is, science can prove or disprove anything. It all depends on the beliefs of the one doing the study. But if your happy go lucky Christian is looking for a way for science to back thier belief, here you go. Don't let these science people bully us around.
The thing is, as soon as you approach the Bible as a science book, science can confirm and deny the Bible according to scientific methods. The Bible is not a product of science, but is a collection of myths that some people think holds theological significance. If the Bible were a product of science, we could change it according to empirical data. As we learn more about nature, we could continually update the Bible just like we update scientific knowledge.

Science cannot whimisically prove and disprove anything that the researcher desires according to presupposed beliefs. Religion fits this pattern quite nicely, however, and we can see it quite clearly in the baseless propaganda that you refered us to above. :(
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
LOL, I was wondering when we would have another interesting thread on this link. You want to defend a Young Earth? Then post some of the reasons why you think it is less than 6,000 years old when all known geologists and astronomers place the age of the Earth at 4.5 billion years?

Fact is that we have written recorded history longer than 6,000 years back. We also have carbon dating which proves the age of objects to much much longer back than 6,000 years. Dinosaurs and many othe forms of life have lived and died over the millenia, resulting in at least 2 mass extinctions that we know of, which have resulted in a world in which over 99% of the life that has ever been on Earth is now extinct.

If you are interested in learning a bit of reality about your world, then I encourage you to check on the link at the bottom of Deut./Jayhawker Soule's signature. Or go to discovery.com or TLC.com or historychannel.com for a good start on your education.

B.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
I personally believe the earth is more than 6,000 years old, but I'd like to pose a question to all.

What if God created the earth out of preexisting matter? Couldn't that account for the billions of years we've attributed to the existance of the planet? What are your thoughts?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
ok, lets hit each of the issues brought up by the first link....

1) Dendrochronology.... the statement ignores petrified and other such preserved trees that are older than the oldest living Bristlecone... his parents and grandparents and great grandparents and so on.. older than 6000 years. PS... the King Clone bristlecone creasote bush is 11,700 years old.
2)Genetic Load... ok, this one would take far to long. It is far to full of errors to adiquately cover... Mutations are often bennifical, Bad mutations have a way of weeding themselves out of the gene pool... the very idea of a maximum cap on "genetic load" is silly to begin with.
3)Population sudies... fundimentally flawed.. it does not account for.. war, disease, famine, accidental death, predation or any of the other historical population checks. Not to mention that the average life span for much of human history has been less than 35 years and is still less than that in many parts of the world. The only way for two people to become 6 billion in 6000 years is for not one child to have died before becoming a parent. A factual impossibility.
The bible for instance has many accounts of millions of people including small children being slaughtered in battle.
4) lets see... for one if the rocks are so leaky then there wouldn't be any pressure at all. Oil is not datable relyably with C14, C14 dissapates below relyable readings in only a few tens of thousands of years... any readings from a sample older than that will be hopelessly muddled. Many such dates come up falcely young due to contamination and the lack of a perfect vaccume. AS for the turning of Halifaxes sewage into oil...
I can't find any referance to this supposed miracle anywhere other than this site and one other that quotes it. My best guess untill evidence is offered up, is that this is a hoax.
5) Ahh the joy of averages... actually the depth of topsoil varies from 0 inches to over 20 feet. (Argentina averages around 20 feet) Topsoil is constantly moving, being formed not only by errosion but by decaying plant and animal material... Topsoil is also being converted into sedimentary rocks. You can not calculate the age of a place by the ammount of topsoil. We in the USA for instance recieve about 3 inches of topsoil every year from China, blown by the wind over the ocean and landing all over the North American contenent.
Thus any "dates" obtained from topsoil creation are inherantly misleading.
6) Erosion... once again demonstrated lack of understanding of the process of erosion. Cliff sharpness is deterimed by the activity of the weathering and the hardness of the rock. Also for the Himilayan mountains to have been formed during Noahs flood they would have had to been pushed up at a rate of hundreds of feet per second. Today they grow at a stately 2 inches a year.
7)Mississippi river Delta... once again a poor understanding of erosion. The reason the Mississippi must be dredged is that the river is so heavily channeled and build uppon that it can no longer deposit its soil in a natural manner. The soil would normally have been left not only in the delta but uppon the flooded banks... the soil deposited also travels further out than just the delta.
8)Ocean sediment... again same misunderstanding of erosion and rock formation.
9)Mineral concentration... 10)Salt content... 1899... well instruments have gotten much better in the past 200 years. There are several ways for salt to be removed from the oceans.. enough for the salinization of the Earth to remain reasonably stable.
11) sea ooze... what is sea ooze? how is it measured in comparison to the rest of the sediment. How do you measure sea ooze but not the rest of the sediment.
12)stalagmites and stalagtites... missunderstanding of the process of formation. Gypsum forms quickly, Limestone caves with there Calcium carbonate form very slowly.
13)Niagra falls... dated to 7000 years ago.. but this says nothing about how old the earth is, just how long the river has been erroding the falls.
14)volcanic water and rocks... what?
15)water from molten rock... see above.
16)dead sea salt... once again poor understanding of evaporation, erosion and soil formations.
17)Earth heat... does not take into account the insulating properties of the Earth itself... rock holds heat quite well.
18)Magnetic field... misunderstanding of the evidenced fluctuation rates of the magnetic field and the periodic polarity shifts.
19)atmospheric helium... doesn't take into account the fact that elements are lost to the solar winds.
20)Earths spin is slowing... at a rate of .005 seconds every year, perfectly reasonable for a 4.6 billion year old earth.
21)C-14.... once again too many issues to fit in a "short" responce.

wa:do
ps. thanks to Talk Origins ammong others for jogging my memory on details.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
Personally instead of people worrying about our evolution or wanting to venture into space lets work as a collective to end the suffering of life on earth e.g poverty,
What if the solutions for present problems are found in an understanding of evolution or access to space?
 
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