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A World without Rules.

Bird123

Well-Known Member
As I see it, life is the education of God's children. As we learn, grow and come to understand, our intelligence will discover the best choices. Evil will no longer be a viable choice simply because it's results are not the best.



There is so much to learn. It could never be accomplished in one lifetime. After eons of lives when one acquires so much knowledge and understanding will rules really be necessary? I think not.



People love to control. That's why rules and laws exist in the first place. As I see it, after much learning, one will acquire total freedom from rules and laws. The rules and laws will become obsolete.



OK. let's look around us to see if there is any evidence of this. We only need to look at ourselves. How many evil or bad choices exist that we could never do regardless of whether there were any laws or rules against it? As I see it, for the intelligent person, the list is high. Could you murder, steal, cheat others, lie. Coerce, intimidate? What about adultery? Could you hate others simply because they are different?



Perhaps your answers will show you where you are and what you need to learn.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't see rules and laws as a method of control in ALL cases (or even most cases), but as to outline how society will respond to behavior that acts against the common interest of a society.
But I don't believe age and knowledge are the only key components to making someone a "good citizen." Firstly because a "good citizen" could highly disagree with what constitutes "evil." For example, I think Christian societies put way too much attention on what goes on in the bedroom. I do not care if someone has sex outside wedlock, and nor should society at large. Similarly, I don't care if people are gay. If people have sex with multiple people, etc.
Further, if someone's capability to empathize is damaged, time and knowledge won't restore it. A lot of sociopaths and psychopaths do not commit crimes specifically because the punishment would be too inconvenient to them. For those people, and people on the spectrum from there, laws are essential, both as a deterrent and to explain to them what will happen if they choose to ignore the laws.
This doesn't mean all laws are right, by any stretch, laws should be looked at critically at all times to determine if they're warranted. But I do think some laws are warranted, and thinking that people don't really need them is a little too wishful thinking.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
As I see it, for the intelligent person, the list is high. Could you murder, steal, cheat others, lie. Coerce, intimidate? What about adultery? Could you hate others simply because they are different?


Unfortunately, intelligence is no guarantee of wise behavior. Albert Speer was a Nazi, albeit quite intelligent. Joseph Stalin probably had some brains too. And plenty of today's CEOs of large corporations are apparently psychopaths or sociopaths. Things like kindness, compassion, and basic human decency are far more important when it comes to wise behavior than intelligence, in my opinion.
 

ScottySatan

Well-Known Member
We have something pretty close to a world without rules. The Internet. It seems to work just fine. And when they try to impose global rules, there's a massive outcry against them sufficient to make the proposers cancel for fear of their lives and livelihoods. At least so far.

There are local areas of the internet, like some forums, that impose rules, but the people largely ignore them and the organizers really can't do anything to enforce it short of scrapping the forum altogether.
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't see that much of a relation between intelligence and morality either.

If what we learn during our lives has the goal of teaching us a kind of morality that is equal to society's rules and therefore based on what's best for keeping citizens at bay, then that's nothing but an internalization of indoctrination.
At least from my own, amoral view.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Unfortunately, intelligence is no guarantee of wise behavior. Albert Speer was a Nazi, albeit quite intelligent. Joseph Stalin probably had some brains too. And plenty of today's CEOs of large corporations are apparently psychopaths or sociopaths. Things like kindness, compassion, and basic human decency are far more important when it comes to wise behavior than intelligence, in my opinion.


But wouldn't you have to be intelligent to realize and effect this?
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, intelligence is no guarantee of wise behavior. Albert Speer was a Nazi, albeit quite intelligent. Joseph Stalin probably had some brains too. And plenty of today's CEOs of large corporations are apparently psychopaths or sociopaths. Things like kindness, compassion, and basic human decency are far more important when it comes to wise behavior than intelligence, in my opinion.


Those that you proclaim to be so intelligence seem to lack the intelligence of kindness, compassion, and human decency. One can have intelligence in one area but be very lacking in another. If they have intelligence in an area that you do not have, they might seem intelligent overall but are they really?
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
I don't see rules and laws as a method of control in ALL cases (or even most cases), but as to outline how society will respond to behavior that acts against the common interest of a society.
But I don't believe age and knowledge are the only key components to making someone a "good citizen." Firstly because a "good citizen" could highly disagree with what constitutes "evil." For example, I think Christian societies put way too much attention on what goes on in the bedroom. I do not care if someone has sex outside wedlock, and nor should society at large. Similarly, I don't care if people are gay. If people have sex with multiple people, etc.
Further, if someone's capability to empathize is damaged, time and knowledge won't restore it. A lot of sociopaths and psychopaths do not commit crimes specifically because the punishment would be too inconvenient to them. For those people, and people on the spectrum from there, laws are essential, both as a deterrent and to explain to them what will happen if they choose to ignore the laws.
This doesn't mean all laws are right, by any stretch, laws should be looked at critically at all times to determine if they're warranted. But I do think some laws are warranted, and thinking that people don't really need them is a little too wishful thinking.


Sure, we are not there yet. Society must protect themselves from the few making really bad choices. Laws, rules and controls are put in place by mankind to protect society as a whole. On the other hand, after living enough lessons, one discovers the best choices themselves. Choosing what is evil or not will have no meaning in the end. As one grows wiser, one will walk toward the best end simply to acquire the best results.

AS I see it, if we look at the system rather than at any one given point in time, we can see where it is all heading.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
We have something pretty close to a world without rules. The Internet. It seems to work just fine. And when they try to impose global rules, there's a massive outcry against them sufficient to make the proposers cancel for fear of their lives and livelihoods. At least so far.

There are local areas of the internet, like some forums, that impose rules, but the people largely ignore them and the organizers really can't do anything to enforce it short of scrapping the forum altogether.


Yes, and what one gets by this is much more honest interaction, greater learning and mankind's problems slowly being fixed. Good observation. As I see it,in time, the internet will stop many wars along with bringing mankind's intelligence up. God's system, like the internet, works better with freedom.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't see that much of a relation between intelligence and morality either.

If what we learn during our lives has the goal of teaching us a kind of morality that is equal to society's rules and therefore based on what's best for keeping citizens at bay, then that's nothing but an internalization of indoctrination.
At least from my own, amoral view.


As I see it, it isn't about any one person's definition of morality. Further, it isn't about making any person conform to any view of morality. Intelligence of the thing is that over the long haul, good choices will bring the best results. Example: two men each had a air conditioning repair business. One man lied, cheated, and overcharged his customers. The second man was honest in all his dealings. Over time word of mouth spread. People learned which company would give them an honest deal. The cheating man made a lot of money but had to spend lots on advertising in hopes of finding someone who never heard of him. The honest man never advertised. He didn't have to. He had more business than he could do.

Which was the intelligent choice? The cheating man might do less actual work but, in time, might never find enough people to support his business. The honest guy will never run out of work and is about to expand his business as we speak.

Intelligence will find the best results by living the lessons. There is no need for anyone to define morality,judge, control or punish. The answers will be discovered through living the lessons by which we will all become intelligent. The real beauty of it all is that it will happen all through our own free choices.
 
As I see it, life is the education of God's children. As we learn, grow and come to understand, our intelligence will discover the best choices. Evil will no longer be a viable choice simply because it's results are not the best.

I feel this is somewhat of a utopian dream TBH. I'm afraid nothing will change with the state of humanity until, fundamentally, it's access to the source of true life is restored. In fact the advent of technology, internet and increasingly advanced weaponry serve only to permit small but powerful groups of relatively evil people to rule unchallenged and to increasingly enslave the rest of mankind and keep them ignorant. Evidence of this is all around us. The media is utterly controlled and censored, we are spoon-fed the content that they want us to see. Our kids are "educated" in a certain way which is essentially conditioning to prepare them for a life of slavery such that they won't even question that life, and will just accept it as the norm.

Why does this entire situation exist?

It exists for one reason and one reason only.

It exists because mankind "wants"

Man has specific needs that at present, can not be denied. Food, water, shelter, warmth and so on.

These fundamental needs drive all of the creatures of Nature including ourselves.

While ever those needs exist, mankind will ALWAYS have to struggle and compete for those necessities. That will always lead to power struggles, competition for land, resources and so on. It is inevitable, it can never change . . . until and unless man is once again freed from those needs.

Your utopia then can only occur if mankind somehow manages to find unlimited resources such that no-one could grab hold of them to monopolise them. It is worth pondering how that can happen.


There is so much to learn. It could never be accomplished in one lifetime. After eons of lives when one acquires so much knowledge and understanding will rules really be necessary? I think not.

Actually the problem here is that mankind's life span is currently so deliberately stunted, that people simply do not live long enough to acquire that great knowledge and perspective. That privilege is reserved for the select few who do have unlimited resources and who are keeping them from everyone else. The rest of us are like May Flies.

Imagine the humble May Fly, It lives for maybe 1-2 days once the adult stage is achieved. What a limited perspective of the world it must have. Imagine if a human only lived 3 weeks. If you were born in summer, you would know only warmth and sunshine, flowers and blossoms. If you were born in winter your entire world might be white snow, cold and dampness.

It is the passage of time that provides us with more and more information. Our lives, kept at the tiny lifespans of 70-100 years as they are, must surely be like the May Fly. We don't live long enough for example to see out one complete circuit of the galaxy (a galactic year). Thus if there are "galactic seasons", then our civilisation knows nothing about them.

People love to control. That's why rules and laws exist in the first place. As I see it, after much learning, one will acquire total freedom from rules and laws. The rules and laws will become obsolete.

No that won't happen. Again, the rules and controls exist purely because a small collective of humanity has gained the wealth and power and force to dominate the rest. While ever mankind has those "needs" this situation will never change. At the moment everyone is enslaved. We are given centralised banking and forced to use money. If we were to try and revert back to simple trading, a pint of milk for a few vegetables etc then people would be locked up for avoiding taxes.

What then is the solution?

The answer is imho, the Philosopher's Stone. The Elixir Of Life, Call it what you will. Ambrosia, Soma, Nectar, the Fountain Of Youth, the Tree Of Life.

It's existence is documented and referenced in just about every religious tome. It is described in100s if not 1000s of works. It is a substance that is totally pure and which contains massive amounts of "life energy". When humans ingest it, their bodies have all the energy they need to survive. The body's own self-healing mechanisms are fully powered which means we would live in perfect health. It also means we would live many hundreds of years. Having such huge amounts of life energy means we would not need food or drink. Currently mankind gets its life energy from food, drink, from breathing air, from being in the sun and so on. But the amounts we get are relatively tiny and as a result our bodies are in a permanent state of decay and early death is utterly inevitable. We are like rechargeable batteries that have been taken out of the charger. We only have the juice that is left.

It is clear (to me and others) that people from our past had this "Stone", this Elixir Of Life. Noah obviously had it and that kept him fit and strong for a great many years. He lived more than 900 years. Jesus obviously had it and used it to perform miracles, healing sick people, allowing him to survive in the wilderness for 40 days/nights without food and allowing him to survive crucifixion.

This IS the missing link that has been holding mankind back. We are an enslaved people because we are forced to have all those needs and wants (food, drink, shelter, warmth etc) and those needs result in us having to work for stupid money to buy those things from others. If the whole of mankind were given access to the Philosopher's Stone overnight then the entire world would change dramatically. There would initially be chaos. No-one would work, because there would be no need to earn money to buy food, drink, materials etc. Imagine, if tomorrow money was eradicated, you only ate food for fun, not because your body needed it. What would you do? Where would you go? Mankind would be suddenly as free as Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden.

This fate is denied us because those who are truly in power, unseen, unelected, covertly manipulating the course of the planet, have this Stone and are keeping it for themselves. They don't want a world where everyone is effectively immortal. In that world their power ceases, they become just another ordinary person. There are big issues to consider here. Those ruling powers will surely look to cull the size of the population, the better to control it. They have been doing that for many years actually, poisoning our food and water, messing with labelling laws, releasing viruses and diseases and so on.

The advent of the internet has allowed us to gain access to information vastly more easy than before. There still exist 100s of documents that talk about the Philosopher's Stone and how it is created. Those documents however use cryptic words to describe the process. The full secrets are jealously guarded by the few whilst the rest of us suffer and live a life of slavery.

Mankind's freedom and utopia could happen very quickly, but only if the Stone were made available to all.

That isn't going to happen any time soon as far as I can see.
 
Last edited:

Bird123

Well-Known Member
I feel this is somewhat of a utopian dream TBH. I'm afraid nothing will change with the state of humanity until, fundamentally, it's access to the source of true life is restored. In fact the advent of technology, internet and increasingly advanced weaponry serve only to permit small but powerful groups of relatively evil people to rule unchallenged and to increasingly enslave the rest of mankind and keep them ignorant. Evidence of this is all around us. The media is utterly controlled and censored, we are spoon-fed the content that they want us to see. Our kids are "educated" in a certain way which is essentially conditioning to prepare them for a life of slavery such that they won't even question that life, and will just accept it as the norm.

Why does this entire situation exist?

It exists for one reason and one reason only.

It exists because mankind "wants"

Man has specific needs that at present, can not be denied. Food, water, shelter, warmth and so on.

These fundamental needs drive all of the creatures of Nature including ourselves.

While ever those needs exist, mankind will ALWAYS have to struggle and compete for those necessities. That will always lead to power struggles, competition for land, resources and so on. It is inevitable, it can never change . . . until and unless man is once again freed from those needs.

Your utopia then can only occur if mankind somehow manages to find unlimited resources such that no-one could grab hold of them to monopolise them. It is worth pondering how that can happen.




Actually the problem here is that mankind's life span is currently so deliberately stunted, that people simply do not live long enough to acquire that great knowledge and perspective. That privilege is reserved for the select few who do have unlimited resources and who are keeping them from everyone else. The rest of us are like May Flies.

Imagine the humble May Fly, It lives for maybe 1-2 days once the adult stage is achieved. What a limited perspective of the world it must have. Imagine if a human only lived 3 weeks. If you were born in summer, you would know only warmth and sunshine, flowers and blossoms. If you were born in winter your entire world might be white snow, cold and dampness.

It is the passage of time that provides us with more and more information. Our lives, kept at the tiny lifespans of 70-100 years as they are, must surely be like the May Fly. We don't live long enough for example to see out one complete circuit of the galaxy (a galactic year). Thus if there are "galactic seasons", then our civilisation knows nothing about them.



No that won't happen. Again, the rules and controls exist purely because a small collective of humanity has gained the wealth and power and force to dominate the rest. While ever mankind has those "needs" this situation will never change. At the moment everyone is enslaved. We are given centralised banking and forced to use money. If we were to try and revert back to simple trading, a pint of milk for a few vegetables etc then people would be locked up for avoiding taxes.

What then is the solution?

The answer is imho, the Philosopher's Stone. The Elixir Of Life, Call it what you will. Ambrosia, Soma, Nectar, the Fountain Of Youth, the Tree Of Life.

It's existence is documented and referenced in just about every religious tome. It is described in100s if not 1000s of works. It is a substance that is totally pure and which contains massive amounts of "life energy". When humans ingest it, their bodies have all the energy they need to survive. The body's own self-healing mechanisms are fully powered which means we would live in perfect health. It also means we would live many hundreds of years. Having such huge amounts of life energy means we would not need food or drink. Currently mankind gets its life energy from food, drink, from breathing air, from being in the sun and so on. But the amounts we get are relatively tiny and as a result our bodies are in a permanent state of decay and early death is utterly inevitable. We are like rechargeable batteries that have been taken out of the charger. We only have the juice that is left.

It is clear (to me and others) that people from our past had this "Stone", this Elixir Of Life. Noah obviously had it and that kept him fit and strong for a great many years. He loved more than 900 years. Jesus obviously had it and used it to perform miracles, healing sick people, allowing him to survive in the wilderness for 40 days/nights without food and allowing him to survive crucifixion.

This IS the missing link that has been holding mankind back. We are an enslaved people because we are forced to have all those needs and wants (food, drink, shelter, warmth etc) and those needs result in us having to work for stupid money to buy those things from others. If the whole of mankind were given access to the Philosopher's Stone overnight then the entire world would change dramatically. There would initially be chaos. No-one would work, because there would be no need to earn money to buy food, drink, materials etc. Imagine, if tomorrow money was eradicated, you only ate food for fun, not because your body needed it. What would you do? Where would you go? Mankind would be suddenly as free as Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden.

This fate is denied us because those who are truly in power, unseen, unelected, covertly manipulating the course of the planet, have this Stone and are keeping it for themselves. They don't want a world where everyone is effectively immortal. In that world their power ceases, they become just another ordinary person. There are big issues to consider here. Those ruling powers will surely look to cull the size of the population, the better to control it. They have been doing that for many years actually, poisoning our food and water, messing with labelling laws, releasing viruses and diseases and so on.

The advent of the internet has allowed us to gain access to information vastly more easy than before. There still exist 100s of documents that talk about the Philosopher's Stone and how it is created. Those documents however use cryptic words to describe the process. The full secrets are jealously guarded by the few whilst the rest of us suffer and live a life of slavery.

Mankind's freedom and utopia could happen very quickly, but only if the Stone were made available to all.

That isn't going to happen any time soon as far as I can see.


Everybody wants to rule the world is mankind's greatest problem as I see it. Still, there will reach a point when wisdom will demonstrate that freedom of views and actions create advantages. That already can be seen in the economies of the world. Those with the most freedoms are creating the most wealth.

You do not understand. As I see it, Death is an important part of God's system. Death is no more than a Change. If one does not change, one, in time, will limit their capabilities.

The more one acquires knowledge; the faster one's capability to acquire that knowledge grows. Mankind will learn faster. Things will get better faster than in the past. Sure, there is a very long way to go, however even with baby steps, mankind will get there.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
As I see it, life is the education of God's children. As we learn, grow and come to understand, our intelligence will discover the best choices. Evil will no longer be a viable choice simply because it's results are not the best.
That's wonderfully idealistic.

There is so much to learn. It could never be accomplished in one lifetime. After eons of lives when one acquires so much knowledge and understanding will rules really be necessary? I think not.


People love to control. That's why rules and laws exist in the first place. As I see it, after much learning, one will acquire total freedom from rules and laws. The rules and laws will become obsolete.
I think you would enjoy a book I read recently, called "A Brief History of Thought," by Luc Ferry.

OK. let's look around us to see if there is any evidence of this. We only need to look at ourselves. How many evil or bad choices exist that we could never do regardless of whether there were any laws or rules against it? As I see it, for the intelligent person, the list is high. Could you murder, steal, cheat others, lie. Coerce, intimidate? What about adultery? Could you hate others simply because they are different?

Perhaps your answers will show you where you are and what you need to learn.
Well said.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
The only real intelligence gained over the centuries is how to kill more men at one time with one strike. Humans are getting very intelligent in that respect.

Humans will only get more intelligent in the evil that we do. Without God's righteousness there is no hope for Man.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
The only real intelligence gained over the centuries is how to kill more men at one time with one strike. Humans are getting very intelligent in that respect.

Humans will only get more intelligent in the evil that we do. Without God's righteousness there is no hope for Man.


Hmmm? I noticed you did not mention the good things that came about through intelligence. Why is your focus so narrow? It's a hot summer day today. Air conditioning is a very good thing that intelligence has brought to mankind. Can you not see anything else??

As I see it, God's system does not require righteousness or the judging people use it for. As I see it, God's system requires no condemning, hating, for frying anybody.

There is good in everyone. How would your view change if you focused only on that? How could you change the world for the better with unconditional love rather than the judging and condemning? We all have the power to Choose what we want to value. What happens if one chooses to value only the goodness in people then nurture that toward growth? Seems a much better solution.

As I see it, God's system is much better than what so many righteous religions are spreading today. Your choices are yours. Choose what you wish to learn through your actions. It doesn't matter what everyone else is choosing. It's what you choose that counts.
 
Morality is the ability to decide who you are as a person and protect those who you feel have more in common with you than not. If everyone in the world identified themselves as human beings and recognized everyone else as equal human beings no matter location or beliefs you would have a human utopia. Unfortunately we as humans like to create cliques for our social identity. So a person who identifies themselves as an American Christian cares much less about the life of a Iraqi Muslim than that of another American Christian even if they have never actually met either one.
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
As I see it, it isn't about any one person's definition of morality. Further, it isn't about making any person conform to any view of morality. Intelligence of the thing is that over the long haul, good choices will bring the best results. Example: two men each had a air conditioning repair business. One man lied, cheated, and overcharged his customers. The second man was honest in all his dealings. Over time word of mouth spread. People learned which company would give them an honest deal. The cheating man made a lot of money but had to spend lots on advertising in hopes of finding someone who never heard of him. The honest man never advertised. He didn't have to. He had more business than he could do.

Which was the intelligent choice? The cheating man might do less actual work but, in time, might never find enough people to support his business. The honest guy will never run out of work and is about to expand his business as we speak.

Intelligence will find the best results by living the lessons. There is no need for anyone to define morality,judge, control or punish. The answers will be discovered through living the lessons by which we will all become intelligent. The real beauty of it all is that it will happen all through our own free choices.
Ah, so you believe that the universe in itself works in a moral way, i.e. that karma (in its cliche meaning) exists.
It might be true statistically, and even there I'd doubt it, but what you describe happens certainly not in every single case like that.
Agreed, intelligence enables one to decide what seems best to lead one to one's goals. But this best way is not necessarily the honest one in every single situation.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
As I see it, life is the education of God's children. As we learn, grow and come to understand, our intelligence will discover the best choices. Evil will no longer be a viable choice simply because it's results are not the best.



There is so much to learn. It could never be accomplished in one lifetime. After eons of lives when one acquires so much knowledge and understanding will rules really be necessary? I think not.



People love to control. That's why rules and laws exist in the first place. As I see it, after much learning, one will acquire total freedom from rules and laws. The rules and laws will become obsolete.



OK. let's look around us to see if there is any evidence of this. We only need to look at ourselves. How many evil or bad choices exist that we could never do regardless of whether there were any laws or rules against it? As I see it, for the intelligent person, the list is high. Could you murder, steal, cheat others, lie. Coerce, intimidate? What about adultery? Could you hate others simply because they are different?



Perhaps your answers will show you where you are and what you need to learn.

There are a few good things in the, but a lot of very nasty things too most of which are attributed to the god character!:mad:
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Morality is the ability to decide who you are as a person and protect those who you feel have more in common with you than not. If everyone in the world identified themselves as human beings and recognized everyone else as equal human beings no matter location or beliefs you would have a human utopia. Unfortunately we as humans like to create cliques for our social identity. So a person who identifies themselves as an American Christian cares much less about the life of a Iraqi Muslim than that of another American Christian even if they have never actually met either one.


So what you are saying is that religion creates a we and they and since religion also makes it about good and evil, someone has to be the bad guy. It always has to be the other guy. To me, that seems like a generator of Hate.

As I see it, in time, hate will never prove to be the best choice. The only problem is that so many hold on so tightly to hate that it will take a long time of living lessons and learning before Hate will become obsolete.
 
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