• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

A Word About the Nephilim

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
A Word About the Nephilim

I have an either-or response to the text about the Nephilim. First, when Ezra, the most famous Scribe in the History of Israel organized the Tanach into the Canon when still in Babylon, he found, for some reason useful to add the text about the Nephilim in Genesis 6, just prior to the Flood to illustrate the condition of Mankind by then. The text existed already as a folkloric legend in Babylon literature.

On the other hand, the text could be looked at as mix-marriages between the children of God with the daughters of man, expressions very common when Ezra was dealing with the struggle to solve the problem with the fact that thousands of Jews had married non-Jewish women in Babylon and that was making extremely difficult for Ezra to establish the second Jewish Commonwealth in the post-exilic era after the 70 years in Babylon. IMHO, I go for the second interpretation because
it makes much more sense.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Here is something from left field. I am more and more thinking our mainstream understanding of human history is dramatically simplistic and incomplete. I think there may well have been extra-terrestrial interventions forwarding the evolution of the human race. And that there were multiple types of human species too until the manipulation collapsed it to one species. This opens up additional theories on the Nephilim story.

My appreciation of the more complex human history has been fostered lately by reading some channeled sources I have come to respect. (perhaps farther in left field, alien involvement is continuing to this day through abductions and genetic hybrid manipulations)
 
Last edited:

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A Word About the Nephilim

I have an either-or response to the text about the Nephilim. First, when Ezra, the most famous Scribe in the History of Israel organized the Tanach into the Canon when still in Babylon, he found, for some reason useful to add the text about the Nephilim in Genesis 6, just prior to the Flood to illustrate the condition of Mankind by then. The text existed already as a folkloric legend in Babylon literature.

On the other hand, the text could be looked at as mix-marriages between the children of God with the daughters of man, expressions very common when Ezra was dealing with the struggle to solve the problem with the fact that thousands of Jews had married non-Jewish women in Babylon and that was making extremely difficult for Ezra to establish the second Jewish Commonwealth in the post-exilic era after the 70 years in Babylon. IMHO, I go for the second interpretation because
it makes much more sense.
That God did not allow for the materialization of angels to men with penises and working sperm makes more sense than if God did make those abominations. . Much, much more sense. Bravo!

I might propose that Genesis 6 is about some kind of trend happening on the women to confuse their child raising capacity and so their children became people who needed to be uprooted.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
That God did not allow for the materialization of angels to men with penises and working sperm makes more sense than if God did make those abominations. . Much, much more sense. Bravo!

I might propose that Genesis 6 is about some kind of trend happening on the women to confuse their child raising capacity and so their children became people who needed to be uprooted.

I am sure you are not being serious about the materialization of angels into men. That's possible only in a dream or vision. Actually, angels are only spiritual emanations. Being so, they have nothing to do with corporeality.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am sure you are not being serious about the materialization of angels into men.
It is what millions of people believe and teach.
The violent hybrid sons who were the children of materialized angels and the daughters of men before the Flood.—Ge 6:4.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q=Nephilim&fc[]=w&p=par

I don't believe it. I was taught it but as I have left those teachers I am now considered an apostate and many of those former associates believe that leaving them means leaving Jehovah ie YHWH.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
It is what millions of people believe and teach.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q=Nephilim&fc[]=w&p=par

I don't believe it. I was taught it but as I have left those teachers I am now considered an apostate and many of those former associates believe that leaving them means leaving Jehovah ie YHWH.

Oh! All right! I apologize for thinking that you believed those pagan enormities. You don't believe them yourself and neither do I. That's good!
 

ukok102nak

Active Member
I am sure you are not being serious about the materialization of angels into men. That's possible only in a dream or vision. Actually, angels are only spiritual emanations. Being so, they have nothing to do with corporeality.

~;> what about this
as it is written
:read:
Genisis 18:1
And HaShem appeared unto him by the terebinths of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood over against him; and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed down to the earth,
3 and said: 'My lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant.
4 Let now a little water be fetched, and wash your feet, and recline yourselves under the tree.
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and stay ye your heart; after that ye shall pass on; forasmuch as ye are come to your servant.' And they said: 'So do, as thou hast said.'
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said: 'Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes.'
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it unto the servant; and he hastened to dress it.
8 And he took curd, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

perhaps this verses tells something which is also not so different from your perception for it may also
possible only in a dream or vision
rathen than an actual circumstances in reality coz
as it is actually, angels are only spiritual emanations. Being so, they have nothing to do with corporeality


:ty:




godbless
unto all always
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I am sure you are not being serious about the materialization of angels into men. That's possible only in a dream or vision. Actually, angels are only spiritual emanations. Being so, they have nothing to do with corporeality.

Why not? Do you doubt that powerful creatures from outside of earthly creation can control and alter molecular structure? Do you know enough about these creations of God to make that judgment?

If Genesis 6 speaks about the "sons of God" noticing the beautiful daughters of men and taking all whom they chose as wives, and produced children...how is this any different to what mankind had always done? Marriage and child bearing was certainly nothing new or extraordinary.

But if these "sons of God" were actually angels who could materialize fully functioning human bodies, why doubt that the children born to them were freakishly large and extremely violent in their disposition? They were called "men of fame" and the wickedness in the earth accelerated to an unacceptable degree due to their influence in the world at that time.

Why would God bring something as drastic as a global deluge to deal with these ones and their errant fathers, if this was just an issue with foreign wives and children? The fact is, these Nephilim were not sons of Adam...they were hybrid creatures who had no right to exist. God made sure that not a single one of them survived and that their fathers were forced back to the spirit realm because there was nowhere else for them to go. The flood did not set mankind free from sin but it did 'reset' the human race and take them back to a new beginning.

Greek mythology is obviously based on the existence of these creatures...licentious and violent gods and demi-gods. It was borrowed from the Babylonian legends carried all over the world by the post flood residents who were forced to disperse when God confused their language. (Genesis 11:1-9)

As personalities, angels obviously have the power to communicate with one another and with God; they also have the ability to speak various languages of men, (Numbers 22:32-35; Daniel 4:23), and the thinking ability with which to glorify and praise God (Psalm 148:2).

It is true that angels are sexless, because God did not give them pro-creative abilities, but these rebels may well have envied the pleasures of the flesh as something they desired for themselves. They made the decision to take on flesh and blood and indulge themselves.

They have life and abilities...but just not the sort that we material beings can comprehend.

Like humankind, angels too are free moral agents, with the power of personal choice between right and wrong.

The Nephilim were not the ordinary offspring of men, as you will recall, those Israelites who made marriage alliances with those who were not believers in Babylon....what happened?

Ezra 10:1-4:
"While ‘Ezra was praying and making confession, weeping and prostrated before the house of God, a huge crowd of Isra’el’s men, women and children gathered around him; and the people were weeping bitterly. 2 Sh’khanyah the son of Yechi’el, one of the descendants of ‘Eilam, spoke up and said to ‘Ezra, “We have acted treacherously toward our God by marrying foreign women from the peoples of the land. But in spite of this, there is still hope for Isra’el. 3 We should make a covenant with our God to send away all these wives, along with their children, in obedience to the advice of Adonai and of those who tremble at the mitzvah of our God; let us act in accordance with the Torah. 4 Stand up, and do your duty, for we are with you; take courage, and do it!” (CJB)

They were told to turn back to their God and put things right by sending their foreign wives and children away. How hard would that have been? But loyalty to God had to come before loyalty to any human.
 

ukok102nak

Active Member
Why not? Do you doubt that powerful creatures from outside of earthly creation can control and alter molecular structure? Do you know enough about these creations of God to make that judgment?

If Genesis 6 speaks about the "sons of God" noticing the beautiful daughters of men and taking all whom they chose as wives, and produced children...how is this any different to what mankind had always done? Marriage and child bearing was certainly nothing new or extraordinary.

But if these "sons of God" were actually angels who could materialize fully functioning human bodies, why doubt that the children born to them were freakishly large and extremely violent in their disposition? They were called "men of fame" and the wickedness in the earth accelerated to an unacceptable degree due to their influence in the world at that time.

Why would God bring something as drastic as a global deluge to deal with these ones and their errant fathers, if this was just an issue with foreign wives and children? The fact is, these Nephilim were not sons of Adam...they were hybrid creatures who had no right to exist. God made sure that not a single one of them survived and that their fathers were forced back to the spirit realm because there was nowhere else for them to go. The flood did not set mankind free from sin but it did 'reset' the human race and take them back to a new beginning.

Greek mythology is obviously based on the existence of these creatures...licentious and violent gods and demi-gods. It was borrowed from the Babylonian legends carried all over the world by the post flood residents who were forced to disperse when God confused their language. (Genesis 11:1-9)

As personalities, angels obviously have the power to communicate with one another and with God; they also have the ability to speak various languages of men, (Numbers 22:32-35; Daniel 4:23), and the thinking ability with which to glorify and praise God (Psalm 148:2).

It is true that angels are sexless, because God did not give them pro-creative abilities, but these rebels may well have envied the pleasures of the flesh as something they desired for themselves. They made the decision to take on flesh and blood and indulge themselves.

They have life and abilities...but just not the sort that we material beings can comprehend.

Like humankind, angels too are free moral agents, with the power of personal choice between right and wrong.

The Nephilim were not the ordinary offspring of men, as you will recall, those Israelites who made marriage alliances with those who were not believers in Babylon....what happened?

Ezra 10:1-4:
"While ‘Ezra was praying and making confession, weeping and prostrated before the house of God, a huge crowd of Isra’el’s men, women and children gathered around him; and the people were weeping bitterly. 2 Sh’khanyah the son of Yechi’el, one of the descendants of ‘Eilam, spoke up and said to ‘Ezra, “We have acted treacherously toward our God by marrying foreign women from the peoples of the land. But in spite of this, there is still hope for Isra’el. 3 We should make a covenant with our God to send away all these wives, along with their children, in obedience to the advice of Adonai and of those who tremble at the mitzvah of our God; let us act in accordance with the Torah. 4 Stand up, and do your duty, for we are with you; take courage, and do it!” (CJB)

They were told to turn back to their God and put things right by sending their foreign wives and children away. How hard would that have been? But loyalty to God had to come before loyalty to any human.

~;> indeed
coz if he accept the verses that we shared unto him then he will probably accepted
that
even the angels couldnt make anyone come unto the father
but
only christjesus the messia
the only begotten of god
our lord and saviour when the time comes for no one could come unto the father without christjesus in our heart and soul


:ty:




godbless
unto all always
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If Genesis 6 speaks about the "sons of God" noticing the beautiful daughters of men
.
If you are going to be a teacher of the Bible, you might learn it before teaching it.

Strong's Hebrew 2896
adjective pleasant, agreeable, good
to the sight
to the taste
to the smell
of time
of place
of persons
of word or message
of other things
of vegetation
,
of animals
of minerals
,
in quantity
in price
of man's intellectual nature
of men, themselves
of God, himself
noun feminine
welfare, benefit, good things, good;
of good words
of material possessions

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/2896.htm

Fair might be a word that conveys more meaning. A person can be very wicked, but beautiful. There lies the problem.

Beautiful in English only really means a person's outward appearance and so when you write it, that is what a person reads, but Bible writers know
about the difference between the inside and the outside of people. Isn't it what it is about?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think that some certain people should get busy changing טוֹב at Genesis 6:2 to pleasant. Perhaps even easy-going.

Young's Literal Translation
and sons of God see the daughters of men that they are fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen.
Webster's Bible Translation
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all whom they chose.
Douay-Rheims Bible
The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took themselves wives of all which they chose.
American King James Version
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
JPS Tanakh 1917
that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose.

Oh dear, did the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses make a MISTAKE? Heaven forbid!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
IF it is assumed that Genesis 6:2 says the women were "beautiful" as in "pleasing to the eye", but what was written was that they were, agreeable to their situation, the very meaning of the IDEA would be changed.

In this world, real outward beauty is rare and coveted. It is written that the sons of men saw that the women were rare and they coveted them.
Might it actually mean the women were "at ease"? The meaning is different. At ease has meaning. According to Bible cross references outward beauty has NO MEANING.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
beautiful, best, better, bountiful, cheerful, at ease, fair word, be in favor,
From towb; good (as an adjective) in the widest sense; used likewise as a noun, both in the masculine and the feminine, the singular and the plural (good, a good or good thing, a good man or woman; the good, goods or good things, good men or women), also as an adverb (well) -- beautiful, best, better, bountiful, cheerful, at ease, X fair (word), (be in) favour, fine, glad, good (deed, -lier, -liest, -ly, -ness, -s), graciously, joyful, kindly, kindness, liketh (best), loving, merry, X most, pleasant, + pleaseth, pleasure, precious, prosperity, ready, sweet, wealth, welfare, (be) well ((-favoured)).

see HEBREW towb

At ease can be linked to 1 Thessalonians 5:3 Job 15:21 Psalms 35:8 Matthew 24:39 Jeremiah 6:14 Isaiah 47:11 Psalms 69:22
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Compare the Hebrew word טוֹב with this:

Save+3.jpg
I hear from the air that I must explain. To be at ease in a world such as it is is to discourage a solution.
 
Last edited:

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
A Word About the Nephilim

I have an either-or response to the text about the Nephilim. First, when Ezra, the most famous Scribe in the History of Israel organized the Tanach into the Canon when still in Babylon, he found, for some reason useful to add the text about the Nephilim in Genesis 6, just prior to the Flood to illustrate the condition of Mankind by then. The text existed already as a folkloric legend in Babylon literature.

On the other hand, the text could be looked at as mix-marriages between the children of God with the daughters of man, expressions very common when Ezra was dealing with the struggle to solve the problem with the fact that thousands of Jews had married non-Jewish women in Babylon and that was making extremely difficult for Ezra to establish the second Jewish Commonwealth in the post-exilic era after the 70 years in Babylon. IMHO, I go for the second interpretation because
it makes much more sense.
The nephilim were the hybrid offspring of disobedient angels and human women. (Genesis 6:2,4) There is no Scriptural reason to conclude otherwise, IMO. Moses evidently recorded Genesis.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
~;> what about this
as it is written
:read:
Genisis 18:1
And HaShem appeared unto him by the terebinths of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood over against him; and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed down to the earth,
3 and said: 'My lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant.
4 Let now a little water be fetched, and wash your feet, and recline yourselves under the tree.
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and stay ye your heart; after that ye shall pass on; forasmuch as ye are come to your servant.' And they said: 'So do, as thou hast said.'
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said: 'Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes.'
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it unto the servant; and he hastened to dress it.
8 And he took curd, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

perhaps this verses tells something which is also not so different from your perception for it may also
possible only in a dream or vision
rathen than an actual circumstances in reality coz
as it is actually, angels are only spiritual emanations. Being so, they have nothing to do with corporeality


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

Let's rationalize here. "HaShem appeared unto Abraham..." Abraham was a prophet and, according to Numbers 12:6, HaShem would reveal Himself to His prophets in a vision and would speak to them in a dream.
So, HaShem appeared to Abraham when he was slumbering by the terebinths of Mamre. Every thing is possible in a dream even for a cow to fly or for angels to eat meat with milk. I wonder if those angels later on
went to release themselves in a private place after they digested their food. For heaven's sake angels are spiritual emanations seen as men only in a dream.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
The nephilim were the hybrid offspring of disobedient angels and human women. (Genesis 6:2,4) There is no Scriptural reason to conclude otherwise, IMO. Moses evidently recorded Genesis.

Yes, but according to pagan folkloric in Babylonian culture. And you imply that Moses himself wrote the book of Genesis! How, in the third person! I wonder what prevented him from writing in the first person.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Compare the Hebrew word טוֹב with this:

Save+3.jpg
I hear from the air that I must explain. To be at ease in a world such as it is is to discourage a solution.

How can you describe the Israelites in the desert to be like this above? We had a powerful army fighting our way through the desert. Read about the Amalechites. We fought them and we beat the hell out of them. Besides, how could
we enter Canaan and defeat even powerful armies fighting us together? We warred five nations at the same time and spread the fear of us throughout.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
We had a powerful army fighting our way through the desert. Read about the Amalechites.
And pay particular attention to the independent accounts supported by evidence like,

... for example,

... give me a moment,

... still looking,

... never mind. :oops:
 
Top