A verse in the Qur'an about a possible good outcome for people from all religions

[Truthseeker]

Nay, but whosoever surrendereth his purpose to Alláh while doing good, his reward is with his Lord; and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Muḥammad ibn ‘Abdu’lláh, "The Meaning of the Glorious Qur’án", 2:112

But they who set their face with resignation Godward, and do what is right, — their reward is with their Lord; no fear shall come on them, neither shall they be grieved.
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 2.108

112. Nay, — whoever submits His whole self to God And is a doer of good, He will get his reward With his Lord; On such shall be no fear, Nor shall they grieve.
Muhammad , "The Holy Qur-an", 2.112

What do you all think about this verse from the Qur'an? Does it apply to people of all religions who surrenders his purpose or will to God, and does good deeds? What does it mean when it says of them will be no fear, and they will not grieve? Are all people of all religions equal in their reward from God?

 

[Trailblazer]

Nay, but whosoever surrendereth his purpose to Alláh while doing good, his reward is with his Lord; and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Muḥammad ibn ‘Abdu’lláh, "The Meaning of the Glorious Qur’án", 2:112

But they who set their face with resignation Godward, and do what is right, — their reward is with their Lord; no fear shall come on them, neither shall they be grieved.
Muhammad, "The Qur'an", 2.108

112. Nay, — whoever submits His whole self to God And is a doer of good, He will get his reward With his Lord; On such shall be no fear, Nor shall they grieve.
Muhammad , "The Holy Qur-an", 2.112

What do you all think about this verse from the Qur'an? Does it apply to people of all religions who surrenders his purpose or will to God, and does good deeds? What does it mean when it says of them will be no fear, and they will not grieve? Are all people of all religions equal in their reward from God?

No possible good outcome for people who have no religion?
No possible good outcome for people who do not believe in God?

 

[Truthseeker]

No possible good outcome for people who have no religion?
No possible good outcome for people who do not believe in God?

I don't believe this quote addresses that. You would have to go to 'Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi on that mostly.

If man has not this knowledge, he will be separated from God, and when this separation exists, good actions have not complete effect. This verse does not mean that the souls separated from God are equal, whether they perform good or bad actions. It signifies only that the foundation is to know God, and the good actions result from this knowledge. Nevertheless, it is certain that between the good, the sinners and the wicked who are veiled from God there is a difference. For the veiled one who has good principles and character deserves the pardon of God, while he who is a sinner, and has bad qualities and character, is deprived of the bounties and blessings of God. Herein lies the difference.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 238)

I think this is the best one concerning those who have no religion or doesn't believe in God, but have good actions and character. What do you take from this?

 

[Trailblazer]

What do you all think about this verse from the Qur'an? Does it apply to people of all religions who surrenders his purpose or will to God, and does good deeds?

Since this is a discussion forum, I have a question. How does a person surrender his purpose or will to God?

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't believe this quote addresses that. You would have to go to 'Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi on that mostly.

If man has not this knowledge, he will be separated from God, and when this separation exists, good actions have not complete effect. This verse does not mean that the souls separated from God are equal, whether they perform good or bad actions. It signifies only that the foundation is to know God, and the good actions result from this knowledge. Nevertheless, it is certain that between the good, the sinners and the wicked who are veiled from God there is a difference. For the veiled one who has good principles and character deserves the pardon of God, while he who is a sinner, and has bad qualities and character, is deprived of the bounties and blessings of God. Herein lies the difference.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 238)

I think this is the best one concerning those who have no religion or doesn't believe in God, but have good actions and character. What do you take from this?

For context, I added the question and the answer.

Question.—It is said in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas “…whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed.” What is the meaning of this verse?
Answer.—This blessed verse means that the foundation of success and salvation is the knowledge of God, and that the results of the knowledge of God are the good actions which are the fruits of faith.

If man has not this knowledge, he will be separated from God, and when this separation exists, good actions have not complete effect.

So, what this refers to is knowledge of God through the Manifestation of God for this age?
Do you think the knowledge that came through previous Manifestations of God is adequate?
Is knowledge sufficient? What about loving God?

It signifies only that the foundation is to know God, and the good actions result from this knowledge.
Why do good actions have to result from this knowledge? I do not think this is necessarily true.

 

[Truthseeker]

Since this is a discussion forum, I have a question. How does a person surrender his purpose or will to God?

In my opinion, you would have to know the will of God first before you submit to that will. All religions have spiritual principles in common that present the will of God for man, but for each revelation, there are different social laws, that people of other religions may not consider the will of God. Therein is a possible source of conflict between us, but we should rally around what we have in common rather than fight over those differences. To fight over those differences to me would not represent the will of God for us, in my opinion.

 

[Trailblazer]

In my opinion, you would have to know the will of God first before you submit to that will.

That is a BIG subject. What specifically is the Will of God?

 

[Truthseeker]

For context, I added the question and the answer.

Question.—It is said in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas “…whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed.” What is the meaning of this verse?
Answer.—This blessed verse means that the foundation of success and salvation is the knowledge of God, and that the results of the knowledge of God are the good actions which are the fruits of faith.

If man has not this knowledge, he will be separated from God, and when this separation exists, good actions have not complete effect.

So, what this refers to is knowledge of God through the Manifestation of God for this age?
Do you think the knowledge that came through previous Manifestations of God is adequate?
Is knowledge sufficient? What about loving God?

It signifies only that the foundation is to know God, and the good actions result from this knowledge.
Why do good actions have to result from this knowledge? I do not think this is necessarily true.

The knowledge from pervious Manifestations are valid concerning eternal spiritual principles. As Baha'is we have knowledge of social laws which are best applicable to this age. In that, in my opinion, we have some edge, I don't know how much.

We have to know God to be able to love God. That is what the knowledge of God is mostly talking about. So, everybody of any divinely revealed religion knows God through knowing the Manifestations and knowing God through what is revealed about God in any religion, whether it has a divine Founder or not.

Those who are atheists have some knowledge of God through His creation, and by picking up knowledge of God from people of religion, whether they know of this or not. It is less, though. Parents can teach their children some knowledge of God through knowing some good God's attributes their children can follow, and the child may not believe in the source of those attributes, but good actions from the child may follow.

 

[Trailblazer]

We have to know God to be able to love God. That is what the knowledge of God is mostly talking about. So, everybody of any divinely revealed religion knows God through knowing the Manifestations and knowing God through what is revealed about God in any religion, whether it has a divine Founder or not.

Do you mean we have to know what the scriptures SAY about God in order to be able to love God?
What if we don't believe what those scriptures say about God?
What if we believe what those scriptures say about God but we still don't love God?
I guess we are out of luck.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is a BIG subject. What specifically is the Will of God?

Baha'u'llah answered that question for a Shaykh, the answer is indeed wide in ramifications.


"O Shaykh, O thou who hast surrendered thy will to God! By self-surrender and perpetual union with God is meant that men should merge their will wholly in the Will of God, and regard their desires as utter nothingness beside His Purpose. Whatsoever the Creator commandeth His creatures to observe, the same must they diligently, and with the utmost joy and eagerness, arise and fulfil. They should in no wise allow their fancy to obscure their judgment, neither should they regard their own imaginings as the voice of the Eternal. In the Prayer of Fasting We have revealed: “Should Thy Will decree that out of Thy mouth these words proceed and be addressed unto them, ‘Observe, for My Beauty’s sake, the fast, O people, and set no limit to its duration,’ I swear by the majesty of Thy glory, that every one of them will faithfully observe it, will abstain from whatsoever will violate Thy law, and will continue to do so until they yield up their souls unto Thee.” In this consisteth the complete surrender of one’s will to the Will of God. Meditate on this, that thou mayest drink in the waters of everlasting life which flow through the words of the Lord of all mankind, and mayest testify that the one true God hath ever been immeasurably exalted above His creatures. He, verily, is the Incomparable, the Ever-Abiding, the Omniscient, the All-Wise. The station of absolute self-surrender transcendeth, and will ever remain exalted above, every other station.
It behoveth thee to consecrate thyself to the Will of God. Whatsoever hath been revealed in His Tablets is but a reflection of His Will. So complete must be thy consecration, that every trace of worldly desire will be washed from thine heart. This is the meaning of true unity..."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 336-338

Is that not Islam, complete submission to Allah?

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

That is a BIG subject. What specifically is the Will of God?

I thought I answered that. We can only know the will of God through the scriptures. Otherwise, it is inscrutable. We can't know what specifically his will is for for us.

 

[Truthseeker]

Baha'u'llah answered that question for a Shaykh, the answer is indeed wide in ramifications.


"O Shaykh, O thou who hast surrendered thy will to God! By self-surrender and perpetual union with God is meant that men should merge their will wholly in the Will of God, and regard their desires as utter nothingness beside His Purpose. Whatsoever the Creator commandeth His creatures to observe, the same must they diligently, and with the utmost joy and eagerness, arise and fulfil. They should in no wise allow their fancy to obscure their judgment, neither should they regard their own imaginings as the voice of the Eternal. In the Prayer of Fasting We have revealed: “Should Thy Will decree that out of Thy mouth these words proceed and be addressed unto them, ‘Observe, for My Beauty’s sake, the fast, O people, and set no limit to its duration,’ I swear by the majesty of Thy glory, that every one of them will faithfully observe it, will abstain from whatsoever will violate Thy law, and will continue to do so until they yield up their souls unto Thee.” In this consisteth the complete surrender of one’s will to the Will of God. Meditate on this, that thou mayest drink in the waters of everlasting life which flow through the words of the Lord of all mankind, and mayest testify that the one true God hath ever been immeasurably exalted above His creatures. He, verily, is the Incomparable, the Ever-Abiding, the Omniscient, the All-Wise. The station of absolute self-surrender transcendeth, and will ever remain exalted above, every other station.
It behoveth thee to consecrate thyself to the Will of God. Whatsoever hath been revealed in His Tablets is but a reflection of His Will. So complete must be thy consecration, that every trace of worldly desire will be washed from thine heart. This is the meaning of true unity..."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 336-338

Is that not Islam, complete submission to Allah?

Regards Tony

"Whatever hath been revealed in His Tablets is but a reflection of His Will" in the quote above. This means to me that we only know a reflection of His will. The will of God itself is inscrutable.

 

[Trailblazer]

I thought I answered that. We can only know the will of God through the scriptures. Otherwise, it is inscrutable. We can't know what specifically his will is for for us.

Yes, I know we can only know through scriptures and we can only guess what we should be doing since scriptures are not tailored to individuals.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"Whatever hath been revealed in His Tablets is but a reflection of His Will" in the quote above. This means to me that we only know a reflection of His will. The will of God itself is inscrutable.

All we can ever know about God is the Manifestations of God they are God's Will and Purpose for humanity.

Thus submission to God's Will, is submission to all that the Messengers have offered.

We struggle to do that, Abdul'baha is the perfect example of that Submission and said to us, look at me, follow me, be as I am. That would be acting as per the will of God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, I know we can only know through scriptures and we can only guess what we should be doing since scriptures are not tailored to individuals.

Abdul'baha was a perfect example of the required submission to the will of God for all humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

Do you mean we have to know what the scriptures SAY about God in order to be able to love God?
What if we don't believe what those scriptures say about God?

I don't know if we have to know what the scriptures say about God to love God. Possibly there are other avenues to knowing God, like the good attributes in other people. If you don't believe in what some of the scriptures say about God, to that extent you don't really know God. If you knew God, you would love

What if we believe what those scriptures say about God but we still don't love God?
I guess we are out of luck.

Believing what the scriptures say about God may not be the same as knowing God. I don't really feel what is commonly called love for God, but I think maybe that is because I don't know myself in the sense of my true self, which is the image of God so to speak. I am developing more dedication to God, so maybe that is love, too?

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know if we have to know what the scriptures say about God to love God. Possibly there are other avenues to knowing God, like the good attributes in other people.

But why would I think that the good attributes in other people come from God?

If you don't believe in what some of the scriptures say about God, to that extent you don't really know God. If you knew God, you would love.

I do not think we can 'know God' from what scriptures say. There is too much we don't know and I think you just believe what you want to believe because that is how you can love God.

Believing what the scriptures say about God may not be the same as knowing God.

That's what I just said.

I don't really feel what is commonly called love for God, but I think maybe that is because I don't know myself in the sense of my true self, which is the image of God so to speak. I am developing more dedication to God, so maybe that is love, too?

I just don't know Duane. I cannot believe that God is all that He is cracked up to be in scriptures.
That's not enough for me to believe that God is x, y, and z.

Why is it always our fault if we don't love God enough? Why does that have to mean that we are in some way deficient? What did God ever do to prove His love to us? Oh, I know, He sent His only Son, and He sent Messengers... Big deal, but what did God do to sacrifice anything for us? Nothing.

I think I just got some ideas for a new thread. I already have a new thread I was about to post though, so I don't know if I want to post two new threads.

 

[Truthseeker]

All we can ever know about God is the Manifestations of God they are God's Will and Purpose for humanity.

Thus submission to God's Will, is submission to all that the Messengers have offered.

We struggle to do that, Abdul'baha is the perfect example of that Submission and said to us, look at me, follow me, be as I am. That would be acting as per the will of God.

Regards Tony

That still is not a complete guide in everything we do. There's no way that could be done.

 

[Truthseeker]

But why would I think that the good attributes in other people come from God?

Where else would they come from? They were given a soul from God, weren't they? A soul that has the attributes of God in them. If you think there is some other way for them to have good attributes, tell me.

 

[Truthseeker]

Why is it always our fault if we don't love God enough? Why does that have to mean that we are in some way deficient?

Is it always our fault? That's a good thought. If it is not our fault, then God understands that it is not our fault and does not blame us. You are asking hard questions and making me think, and that is a good thing.