A Universe from Nothing?

[Thief]

Time is not a force or substance.....

and there is a report of.....void

 

[Thief]

Time is not a force or substance.....

and there is a report of.....void

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And, if time is finite, that is the end of the story. The state of 'nothing' does not exist.

Time is a mental construct, and represents a measurement of a finite period of observation of eternal existence.

 

[Polymath257]

Time is a mental construct, and represents a measurement of a finite period of observation of eternal existence.

The fact that it can be measured shows it isn't *just* a mental construct. What 'a finite period of observation of eternal existence' means without time is anyone's guess.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The fact that it can be measured shows it isn't *just* a mental construct. What 'a finite period of observation of eternal existence' means without time is anyone's guess.

The very concept of time is the mental construct, the measurement is a merely the counting of cycles of an oscillation.

A finite period of observed measurement of universal non-dual reality implies a mental abstraction from the non-dual to create a dualistic framework based on counting of finite oscillation periods.

 

[Polymath257]

The very concept of time is the mental construct, the measurement is a merely the counting of cycles of an oscillation.

And oscillation (more generally, movement) could not happen without time.

A finite period of observed measurement of universal non-dual reality implies a mental abstraction from the non-dual to create a dualistic framework based on counting of finite oscillation periods.

Huh?

Let's put it this way. Is distance a mental construct? Mass? Energy?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And oscillation (more generally, movement) could not happen without time.


Huh?

Let's put it this way. Is distance a mental construct? Mass? Energy?

Haha.....of course universal relative movement carries on regardless of human observation, time being no more than a mental construct that arises in the human mind as a result of such observation. The reality represented by the concept of time is not not present as a universal entity, it is an artifact of the human mind.

The reality represented by the concept of spatial distance is actually present independent of human observation.

 

[Polymath257]

Haha.....of course universal relative movement carries on regardless of human observation, time being no more than a mental construct that arises in the human mind as a result of such observation. The reality represented by the concept of time is not not present as a universal entity, it is an artifact of the human mind.

The reality represented by the concept of spatial distance is actually present independent of human observation.

Time is just as independent of the human mind as is distance.

 

[gnostic]

Haha.....of course universal relative movement carries on regardless of human observation, time being no more than a mental construct that arises in the human mind as a result of such observation.

And yet it does take time for the Earth to rotate at rotational velocity to complete one full cycle (i.e. 24 hours or more precisely 86,400 seconds) and for the Earth to complete one full cycle orbital movement around the Sun (365.24219 day).

The Earth's motion are real, regardless of human observation, and motion and changes in motion (e.g. acceleration and deceleration) takes time.

Time may be human construct of human observation, but so are yours pitiful claims of "eternity" and your belief "Cosmic Consciousness" and "Ultimate Reality", they are all human or mental constructs of deluded fantasies...which I personally summed up as "wishful thinking".

At least time is "measurable" and "quantifiable", which make it very real, relativistic or not...and far more real than your wishful claims to eternity or Cosmic Consciousness.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Time is just as independent of the human mind as is distance.

Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future. I can show you a picture of spatial distance, can you show me a picture of time?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And yet it does take time for the Earth to rotate at rotational velocity to complete one full cycle (i.e. 24 hours or more precisely 86,400 seconds) and for the Earth to complete one full cycle orbital movement around the Sun (365.24219 day).

The Earth's motion are real, regardless of human observation, and motion and changes in motion (e.g. acceleration and deceleration) takes time.

Time may be human construct of human observation, but so are yours pitiful claims of "eternity" and your belief "Cosmic Consciousness" and "Ultimate Reality", they are all human or mental constructs of deluded fantasies...which I personally summed up as "wishful thinking".

At least time is "measurable" and "quantifiable", which make it very real, relativistic or not...and far more real than your wishful claims to eternity or Cosmic Consciousness.

The moment you say.."it does take time", I ask what is this 'time', can you take a picture of it? Can you weigh it? Can you touch it? What substance is it made of? Does it exist outside of the mind?

 

[gnostic]

The moment you say.."it does take time", I ask what is this 'time', can you take a picture of it? Can you weigh it? Can you touch it? What substance is it made of? Does it exist outside of the mind?

I said you can "measure" time - the time to get from one point to the next point, is measurable.

Why would you be stupid enough to want to weigh "time", ben?

Time has no mass.

And only idiot would think to take photo of time or to touch it. Time is not substance or matter.

And you are a hypocrite.

You say time is not real, but a mental construct. Well, you think eternity is real.

So let me ask you the same stupid questions that you had asked me, but substitute "time" for "eternity"?

I ask what is this 'eternity', can you take a picture of it? Can you weigh it? Can you touch it? What substance is it made of? Does it exist outside of the mind?​

Eternity is even more of a mental construct than time, but at least with time, you can measure it, and there are many applications for time.

That's what make "time" real, and your "eternity" not.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I said you can "measure" time - the time to get from one point to the next point, is measurable.

Why would you be stupid enough to want to weigh "time", ben?

Time has no mass.

And only idiot would think to take photo of time or to touch it. Time is not substance or matter.

And you are a hypocrite.

You say time is not real, but a mental construct. Well, you think eternity is real.

So let me ask you the same stupid questions that you had asked me, but substitute "time" for "eternity"?

I ask what is this 'eternity', can you take a picture of it? Can you weigh it? Can you touch it? What substance is it made of? Does it exist outside of the mind?​

Eternity is even more of a mental construct than time, but at least with time, you can measure it, and there are many applications for time.

That's what make "time" real, and your "eternity" not.

Due to you not being fluent in English, I understand that you will not understand my explanation of why there is no tangible reality in the physical universe represented by time except through using some calibrated oscillator as a proxy to measure the progress of existence to continue existing. Do not think I am being critical, even top mathematicians like polymaths don't get it yet. Eventually the penny will drop though.

In the mean time it will be a waste of my time trying to convey it, as well as yours' in vainly thinking you understand what I am saying.

 

[gnostic]

Due to you not being fluent in English, I understand that you will not understand my explanation of why there is no tangible reality in the physical universe represented by time except through using some calibrated oscillator as a proxy to measure the progress of existence to continue existing. Do not think I am being critical, even top mathematicians like polymaths don't get it yet. Eventually the penny will drop though.

In the mean time it will be a waste of my time trying to convey it, as well as yours' in vainly thinking you understand what I am saying.

I have answer your questions, and I have clarified my original points...

...but you are being evasive, refusing to answer my questions, and in your patronising and typical pompous fashion when you attack my English...AGAIN.

That's what you always do. You avoid addressing my questions, simply by attacking my English.

Why should I address any more of your questions, when you won't address mine?

Go suck a lemon with your ####!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I have answer your questions, and I have clarified my original points...

...but you are being evasive, refusing to answer my questions, and in your patronising and typical pompous fashion when you attack my English...AGAIN.

That's what you always do. You avoid addressing my questions, simply by attacking my English.

Why should I address any more of your questions, when you won't address mine?

Go suck a lemon with your ####!

You think you have provided a reasonable response, I understand that which is why I am not being critical, but in fact your response was largely incoherent...so much so that I can only suggest you concentrate on your English studies in order to better understand what is being said to you.

Try to understand this.....time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

You think you have provided a reasonable response, I understand that which is why I am not being critical, but in fact your response was largely incoherent...so much so that I can only suggest you concentrate on your English studies in order to better understand what is being said to you.

Try to understand this.....time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.

Did you write and post this instantaneously or do you just not have any clue and don't care? By your reckoning, the duration of any event is always 0. How can you hold down a job? If there is 0 duration for any event, then YOU can extrapolate that there is no such thing as a DEADLINE and tell your boss to go p*ss up a rope when he tells you a project must be completed by a mental construct for something that does not exist. Another freedom you enjoy is to completely IGNORE the rotation of Earth and the day/night cycle. After that you can become abusive and demanding to force anyone to do anything at any moment regardless their condition or even location. Get someone out of bed across the country from you to peel you a grape and fluff your pillows INSTANTANEOUSLY.
The reason i'm grinding the s**t out of you on this is because i have actually LIVED with someone who denied that time existed and what i have suggested to you is EXACTLY what this guy did on a regular basis!
Deniers ALWAYS hurt others in order to just live WHEN they want to instead of being FORCED to live when as AS the rest of us do. WE WORK our tails off ON TIME every day so you can play at being a threat to the rest of us.
Denial = Threat to society.

 

[gnostic]

You think you have provided a reasonable response, I understand that which is why I am not being critical, but in fact your response was largely incoherent...so much so that I can only suggest you concentrate on your English studies in order to better understand what is being said to you.

Try to understand this.....time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.

You haven't answer my questions.

You say time is mental construct and not real, because you wrote these inane questions:

The moment you say.."it does take time", I ask what is this 'time', can you take a picture of it? Can you weigh it? Can you touch it? What substance is it made of? Does it exist outside of the mind?

You always believed that "eternity" is real, not "time". So I am switching your questions to ask you these:

1. What is eternity?
2. Can you take picture of eternity?
3. Can you weigh eternity?
4. Can you touch eternity?
5. What substance is eternity made of?
6. Does eternity exist out of mind?

Come on, man. Answer these questions.

And here is one last question about "eternity" for you to answer:

Why is eternity real, if time isn't?​

You are a genius in English. You keep telling me I am illiterate, then why won't you bloody answer my questions? You keep telling me you are smarter than me, then you explain me to questions about "eternity". Why do you keep evading like a dishonest politician?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Did you write and post this instantaneously or do you just not have any clue and don't care? By your reckoning, the duration of any event is always 0. How can you hold down a job? If there is 0 duration for any event, then YOU can extrapolate that there is no such thing as a DEADLINE and tell your boss to go p*ss up a rope when he tells you a project must be completed by a mental construct for something that does not exist. Another freedom you enjoy is to completely IGNORE the rotation of Earth and the day/night cycle. After that you can become abusive and demanding to force anyone to do anything at any moment regardless their condition or even location. Get someone out of bed across the country from you to peel you a grape and fluff your pillows INSTANTANEOUSLY.
The reason i'm grinding the s**t out of you on this is because i have actually LIVED with someone who denied that time existed and what i have suggested to you is EXACTLY what this guy did on a regular basis!
Deniers ALWAYS hurt others in order to just live WHEN they want to instead of being FORCED to live when as AS the rest of us do. WE WORK our tails off ON TIME every day so you can play at being a threat to the rest of us.
Denial = Threat to society.

I suspect you do not understand what you was written, no where did I say the duration of an event is 0. If you think I did, please quote my precise words you are referring and I will address them. As it is, I find you post incoherent and bizarre.

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

I suspect you do not understand what you was written, no where did I say the duration of an event is 0. If you think I did, please quote my precise words you are referring and I will address them. As it is, I find you post incoherent and bizarre.

Real life is incoherent and bizzare to people who either don't work or who don't know science. Real life is the very most bizarre to the worst delusional deniers of FACTS. People who DO work, but deny facts and science are accident prone and generally incompetent, therefore a liability on most job sites.
Everyone in internet forum debates on science, religion and reality tend to speak in lofty generalized terms, but i bring my knowledge of science and my use of facts down to REAL LIFE, like on my job and in all of life where consequences are real.
Then i bring that same reality to internet forms so kooks and crackpots can't have as much fun without some consequences to go with it.
In other words, I'm a "kill-joy".
NO MORE having fun.
Time EXISTS.
DEAL with it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Real life is incoherent and bizzare to people who either don't work or who don't know science. Real life is the very most bizarre to the worst delusional deniers of FACTS. People who DO work, but deny facts and science are accident prone and generally incompetent, therefore a liability on most job sites.
Everyone in internet forum debates on science, religion and reality tend to speak in lofty generalized terms, but i bring my knowledge of science and my use of facts down to REAL LIFE, like on my job and in all of life where consequences are real.
Then i bring that same reality to internet forms so kooks and crackpots can't have as much fun without some consequences to go with it.
In other words, I'm a "kill-joy".
NO MORE having fun.
Time EXISTS.
DEAL with it.

The fact that you avoided responding to my request to quote the passage where you claimed I said or implied duration of an event is 0 is showing. You can not learn if you are not honest, come on, you made the claim, back it up, otherwise admit your error or slink away. Posting more off topic rambling does will not work for you.