A Translation that PROVES Church Dogma!

[ImmortalFlame]

Thank you......that is exactly what we do, and I appreciate it greatly that you have stated it so graciously.

Like Jesus, the message is offered and if there is a willing heart, God does the rest.

Nailed it!

In all seriousness though, even though I often come across as a curmudgeonly atheist, I do try to make a genuine effort to try and understand the beliefs and intentions of the religious, so I'm glad I managed to get that right. It's also not something that any JW explicitly told me, so I think it reflects well on JW's that their intentions come across to me quite clearly.

 

[Deeje]

Hi Deeje I know there are many passages referring to Jesus as Divine or as Jehovah if you like . I don’t know them all off by heart but let’s start with John 10:30 where Jesus says ( I and my Father are one ).

Do you see that as a reference to a duality of God with his son? You do understand that it suggests no third party...? In fact, in almost all of the verses where God and his only begotten son are mentioned together, the holy spirit is missing.....can you explain why?

So what about John 17:20-23...
"I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me."

This is not a statement of any trinity but an admission of unity with God and his son and with the body of Christ as the chosen ones.

So let’s look at the chapter in context as well. At the beginning of John chapter 10 Jesus also says

Or in plain modern English....(sorry, I don't speak in archaic English)

"Most truly I say to you, the one who does not enter into the sheepfold through the door but climbs in by another way, that one is a thief and a plunderer. 2 But the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice. 5 They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus spoke this comparison to them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

7 So Jesus said again: “Most truly I say to you, I am the door for the sheep. 8 All those who have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers; but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and that one will go in and out and find pasturage. 10 The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it in abundance. 11 I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his life in behalf of the sheep. 12 The hired man, who is not a shepherd and to whom the sheep do not belong, sees the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and flees—and the wolf snatches them and scatters them— 13 because he is a hired man and does not care for the sheep. 14 I am the fine shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my life in behalf of the sheep."

Deeje just as you have Jehovah being the shepherd of his flock from times of old you also have have our Lord Jesus claiming the Divine title as well as being the good shepherd of the sheep. Now I haven’t answered everything in that chapter as yet. Just a mere sprinkling for now as I must be back to work soon. But as requested you now have your verse John 10:30 ( I and the Father are one ) where Jesus claims equality with the Father. One of the many verses and reasons why the church accepts Jesus as Jehovah too.

Flocks can have more than one shepherd...

And you now have John 17:20-23 to show that the "oneness" that Jesus spoke about had nothing to do with a trinity. It was a unity that included God, his son and his Christian disciples. Until the 4th century, there was no doctrine of the trinity.

There is no triune God in the Abrahamic faiths. Neither in the Jewish religion or in Islam.....or in original Christianity because Israel's God was YHWH who was a single entity. Jesus was Jewish...

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one.
דשְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהֹוָ֥ה | אֶחָֽד: (Deuteronomy 6:4)

"Let them know that You-Your name alone is the Lord, Most High over all the earth.
יטוְיֵֽדְע֗וּ כִּי־אַתָּ֬ה שִׁמְךָ֣ יְהֹוָ֣ה לְבַדֶּ֑ךָ עֶ֜לְי֗וֹן עַל־כָּל־הָאָֽרֶץ:" (Psalm 83:18)

YHWH יְהֹוָ֣ה alone is God. He has only one name.

For Jesus to claim to be God, would have been blasphemy. He would have broken God's law and been put to death as a guilty man...not an innocent one.

In John 17:3 Jesus says in prayer....
"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."

Was Jesus praying to himself? He identifies his Father as "the only true God" and himself as one who was "sent" by him. Why do we only need to know God and his son in order to gain everlasting life?....the third person doesn't rate a mention again.

Trying to argue the trinity scripturally is a fruitless exercise so I will save you the bother....

Just let me ask you to provide one thing...a direct statement from either God or Jesus Christ that they recognized each other as equals and that Jehovah ever called his son "God". (John 10:30 is already off the table.)

If Jesus is God then the statement he makes in Revelation 3:12 makes no sense.

"The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name."

How does Jesus when he has returned to heaven still have a God if he is God? Can you answer that one for me too?

 

[Prim969]

________________________________
God is not plural- even tho ancient Hebrew is in a way most don't understand, the language is so alien to us.
Google "elohim" to understand; it is NEVER rendered "They", Us" (there either), We", etc.
There is no Trinity ANYWHERE in the Bible- and since Jesus said it means Eternal Life KNOWING God- that settles the matter.

Thequestion you say God is not plural in the passage of Genesis 1:26 And even the ancient Hebrew is in a way most don’t understand. I’m not so sure about that. We have many sources that we can look apon for that. The Masoretic text copied between the 7th and 10th century AD which most Jews and Christians take as their standard and also the Septuagint a translation of the Hebrew translated into Greek around in the 2nd BC though there is some conjecture to whether there was a translation done so back in antiquity but there are certainly translations of the Old Testament translated into Greek around. So I’m assuming these people know quite a lot about languages especially when it comes to dealing with the word of God as they also translated the Dead Sea scrolls rather well too. But let’s take look to see if the (us) is translated anywhere else in the Old Testament as in Genesis 1:26. When referring to God. If we go to Genesis 3:22 we do find (And the Lord God said, Behold the man has become as one of US, to know good and evil. And again we do find in Genesis 11:7 ( Go to let US go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech ) I think in America the 3 strikes and you be out. But there is more. In Isaiah 6:8 we do find once again ( Also I heard the voice of the Lord, Whom shall I send and who will go with US? Than said I, Here I am send me) Plural again for a fourth time. Could have translators have erred do badly I don’t think so. Could the (us) be referring to the angels. I think Isaiah 44:24 answers that ( Thus saith the Lord. Thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things, that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth by MYSELF ) Thequestion Angels are never presented as creators or creating anything at least from the bibles perspective. They are generally seen as messengers of blessings or judgments, protecters or avenging angels. You may see things differently.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP, that DOGma want hunt because the Lord Jesus himself said that only one person made man. while speaking with the Pharisees concering Putting away one's wife, he made this statement. Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female", he is a single person designation, meaning one person.

just as the very next verse in Genesis points out, Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them".

so God here is refering to himself as a single person. the us and the our in nverse 26 is speaking of his coming in flesh as the "offspring", or the "diversity" of himself as "the Son". this is also proved out in, "who MADE ALL THINGS", one person, or two or three? Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself". now this, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".
him is a single person desigination. so, was it one person who created "all things" or ONE person. Jesus said it was one person, so that church DOGma want hunt , because Jesus don't LIE.


PICJAG.

 

[Iymus]

The RCV- Church Dogma inside!

Genesis 1:1- In the beginning The Triune Gods created the heavens and the earth.

they use Elohim to interpret a one in three or three in one God.

Gen 1:1 In the beginningH7225 GodH430 createdH1254 (H853) the heavenH8064 and the earth.H776

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
-----------

26-Then the Triune Majesty said, "Let us make man in our images, in our likenesses: they too, will have a Triune Personality!
27- So the Triune God created mankind in Their own images, in the image of the Holy Twinity They created them; male and female Them created them.

the argument here is God said let us therefore God is one in three or three in one.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
------------

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Thank you......that is exactly what we do, and I appreciate it greatly that you have stated it so graciously.

Like Jesus, the message is offered and if there is a willing heart, God does the rest.

The concept of the "trinity" has always been misunderstood by orthodox Christianity. The True Trinity is right before your eyes everyday if you can "see" it.
The True Trinity is the "Father", "Mother" and "Son"(child).
Orthodox Christianity doesn't understand that the "Holy Spirit" is the Female (Mother) aspect of God, and the Male aspect the "Father", and the "Son" (Child) is......YOU and me.
Sorry, I'm guessing that every single person reading this has a father and mother (parents).
Am I right ?

 

[Deeje]

The concept of the "trinity" has always been misunderstood by orthodox Christianity. The True Trinity is right before your eyes everyday if you can "see" it.
The True Trinity is the "Father", "Mother" and "Son"(child).
Orthodox Christianity doesn't understand that the "Holy Spirit" is the Female (Mother) aspect of God, and the Male aspect the "Father", and the "Son" (Child) is......YOU and me.
Sorry, I'm guessing that every single person reading this has a father and mother (parents).
Am I right ?

Whilst stating no trinity, the Bible does in fact, state that God has a figurative “wife” and that this “woman” produced sons.....

In prophesy Isaiah 54:1 says....
“Shout joyfully, you barren woman who has not given birth!
Become cheerful and cry out for joy, you who never had birth pains,
For the sons of the desolate one are more numerous
Than the sons of the woman with a husband,” says Jehovah.”

The apostle Paul speaks of this woman as a city, but eliminates Jerusalem on earth from being God’s woman. Taking as his illustrations Sarah the wife of the Hebrew patriarch Abraham and her Egyptian slave girl named Hagar, Paul writes to Christians....

Galatians 4:26
“the Jerusalem above is free [as Sarah was], and she is our mother.”

The “Jerusalem above” is in heaven, as Paul indicates in Hebrews 12:22-23.....

“you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, in general assembly, and the congregation of the first-born who have been enrolled in the heavens”.

God’s “woman” (his figurative “wife”) was going to have many sons....but her firstborn is Jesus Christ.
With Jesus as their “brother” (not their father) they would make up a heavenly government that will rule mankind on earth. It is what Jesus taught his disciples to pray for.....for God’s Kingdom to “come” and for his will to be done “on earth as it is in heaven.”

Familial parallels are used in the scriptures even though there is no gender, or marriage, or birth and death in heaven. It’s illustrative, so that we understand how these relationships work.

So not only is there no trinity.....no “godhead” ever taught in scripture, according to my studies, there is definitely no woman that is part of God.

 

[theQuestion]

Gen 3:19a- Then the Triune God added: "Adam, Eve, since you rebelled against US- we've changed our
Holy Minds, and have prepared a place in the center of Earth, where yoiur bodies will be sent and kept alive FOREVER, and we will TORTURE you FOREVER by burning you alive and giving worms eternal life so they can gnaw on you! And any of your kids that don't worship mus will go there, too- for All Eternity- NEVER to escape! HooHooHoHoHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!" - RCV

 

[Iymus]

The concept of the "trinity" has always been misunderstood by orthodox Christianity. The True Trinity is right before your eyes everyday if you can "see" it.
The True Trinity is the "Father", "Mother" and "Son"(child).
Orthodox Christianity doesn't understand that the "Holy Spirit" is the Female (Mother) aspect of God, and the Male aspect the "Father", and the "Son" (Child) is......YOU and me.
Sorry, I'm guessing that every single person reading this has a father and mother (parents).
Am I right ?

Father, Mother, and Son are not a Trinity; One begats, another passes down , and the last is trained.

Female and Child subject unto the Male who is also the Possessor or Originator; with Female and Child being his possessions.

Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
-------------------------------

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Pro 4:5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
Pro 4:6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.

----------------------------------

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Whilst stating no trinity, the Bible does in fact, state that God has a figurative “wife” and that this “woman” produced sons.....

In prophesy Isaiah 54:1 says....
“Shout joyfully, you barren woman who has not given birth!
Become cheerful and cry out for joy, you who never had birth pains,
For the sons of the desolate one are more numerous
Than the sons of the woman with a husband,” says Jehovah.”

The apostle Paul speaks of this woman as a city, but eliminates Jerusalem on earth from being God’s woman. Taking as his illustrations Sarah the wife of the Hebrew patriarch Abraham and her Egyptian slave girl named Hagar, Paul writes to Christians....

Galatians 4:26
“the Jerusalem above is free [as Sarah was], and she is our mother.”

The “Jerusalem above” is in heaven, as Paul indicates in Hebrews 12:22-23.....

“you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, in general assembly, and the congregation of the first-born who have been enrolled in the heavens”.

God’s “woman” (his figurative “wife”) was going to have many sons....but her firstborn is Jesus Christ.
With Jesus as their “brother” (not their father) they would make up a heavenly government that will rule mankind on earth. It is what Jesus taught his disciples to pray for.....for God’s Kingdom to “come” and for his will to be done “on earth as it is in heaven.”

Familial parallels are used in the scriptures even though there is no gender, or marriage, or birth and death in heaven. It’s illustrative, so that we understand how these relationships work.

So not only is there no trinity.....no “godhead” ever taught in scripture, according to my studies, there is definitely no woman that is part of God.

The book of scriptures you refer to is flawed, corrupted by the Roman Church, but even in them we find the concept of the "trinity".
Understood falsely by Orthodox Christians as I said, and as you so eloquently demonstrate..
but the understanding of the "godhead" is there.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Whilst stating no trinity, the Bible does in fact, state that God has a figurative “wife” and that this “woman” produced sons.....

In prophesy Isaiah 54:1 says....
“Shout joyfully, you barren woman who has not given birth!
Become cheerful and cry out for joy, you who never had birth pains,
For the sons of the desolate one are more numerous
Than the sons of the woman with a husband,” says Jehovah.”

The apostle Paul speaks of this woman as a city, but eliminates Jerusalem on earth from being God’s woman. Taking as his illustrations Sarah the wife of the Hebrew patriarch Abraham and her Egyptian slave girl named Hagar, Paul writes to Christians....

Galatians 4:26
“the Jerusalem above is free [as Sarah was], and she is our mother.”

The “Jerusalem above” is in heaven, as Paul indicates in Hebrews 12:22-23.....

“you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, in general assembly, and the congregation of the first-born who have been enrolled in the heavens”.

God’s “woman” (his figurative “wife”) was going to have many sons....but her firstborn is Jesus Christ.
With Jesus as their “brother” (not their father) they would make up a heavenly government that will rule mankind on earth. It is what Jesus taught his disciples to pray for.....for God’s Kingdom to “come” and for his will to be done “on earth as it is in heaven.”

Familial parallels are used in the scriptures even though there is no gender, or marriage, or birth and death in heaven. It’s illustrative, so that we understand how these relationships work.

So not only is there no trinity.....no “godhead” ever taught in scripture, according to my studies, there is definitely no woman that is part of God.

The book of scriptures you refer to is flawed, corrupted by the Roman Church, but even in them we find the concept of the "trinity".
Understood falsely by Orthodox Christians as I said, and as you so eloquently demonstrate..
but the understanding of the "godhead" is there.

Father, Mother, and Son are not a Trinity; One begats, another passes down , and the last is trained.

Female and Child subject unto the Male who is also the Possessor or Originator; with Female and Child being his possessions.

Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
-------------------------------

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Pro 4:5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
Pro 4:6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.

----------------------------------

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

they use Elohim to interpret a one in three or three in one God.

Gen 1:1 In the beginningH7225 GodH430 createdH1254 (H853) the heavenH8064 and the earth.H776

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
-----------


the argument here is God said let us therefore God is one in three or three in one.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
------------

When you can understand that "male", "female" and "son" (child) are eternal spiritual principles
and not mere biological specimens, then we may have something to discuss.

 

[theQuestion]

Gen 6:3- And God-the-Father said, God-the-Ghost shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years...then all Eternity in Hellfire! - RCV

 

[sojourner]

Now THAT'S funny!
Churchianity has made EVERYTHING up!
Every Dogma is perverted!

Gen 2:7- Then the Holy Trinity formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and then They put an Immortal Soul into his body. - RCV

In a pig's eye...

 

[sojourner]

Name one teaching of theirs about God they don't pervert somehow!

Your post sounds angry and embittered.

 

[sojourner]

________________________________
God is not plural- even tho ancient Hebrew is in a way most don't understand, the language is so alien to us.
Google "elohim" to understand; it is NEVER rendered "They", Us" (there either), We", etc.
There is no Trinity ANYWHERE in the Bible- and since Jesus said it means Eternal Life KNOWING God- that settles the matter.

Glad you're so settled. Meanwhile, the rest of us shall continue our journey of discovery unabated.

 

[Deeje]

The book of scriptures you refer to is flawed, corrupted by the Roman Church, but even in them we find the concept of the "trinity".

I have heard all the excuses....scripture is never flawed, only misinterpreted.....and even then, God's truth is not hidden from hearts opened by God's spirit. (John 6:44; 65)

I will ask the same of you as I did the last poster who tried to tell me that the trinity was in the Bible. I have studied God's word for 47 years and not once have I ever found a direct statement concerning the existence of a "godhead" or a Being with multiple personality disorder, ever mentioned.

So please give us the scriptures where there is a direct statement from Jesus about him being God from his own mouth.....or with God admitting that he is not the single God of Israel but a three in one substitute that just magically appeared 300 years after Jesus died.

To place the son on equal footing with the Father as God, is a breach of the First Commandment. I wonder who would want to convince "Christians" to do that?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Whilst stating no trinity, the Bible does in fact, state that God has a figurative “wife” and that this “woman” produced sons.....

In prophesy Isaiah 54:1 says....
“Shout joyfully, you barren woman who has not given birth!
Become cheerful and cry out for joy, you who never had birth pains,
For the sons of the desolate one are more numerous
Than the sons of the woman with a husband,” says Jehovah.”

The apostle Paul speaks of this woman as a city, but eliminates Jerusalem on earth from being God’s woman. Taking as his illustrations Sarah the wife of the Hebrew patriarch Abraham and her Egyptian slave girl named Hagar, Paul writes to Christians....

Galatians 4:26
“the Jerusalem above is free [as Sarah was], and she is our mother.”

The “Jerusalem above” is in heaven, as Paul indicates in Hebrews 12:22-23.....

“you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, in general assembly, and the congregation of the first-born who have been enrolled in the heavens”.

God’s “woman” (his figurative “wife”) was going to have many sons....but her firstborn is Jesus Christ.
With Jesus as their “brother” (not their father) they would make up a heavenly government that will rule mankind on earth. It is what Jesus taught his disciples to pray for.....for God’s Kingdom to “come” and for his will to be done “on earth as it is in heaven.”

Familial parallels are used in the scriptures even though there is no gender, or marriage, or birth and death in heaven. It’s illustrative, so that we understand how these relationships work.

So not only is there no trinity.....no “godhead” ever taught in scripture, according to my studies, there is definitely no woman that is part of God.

The book of scriptures you refer to is flawed, corrupted by the Roman Church, but even in them we find the concept of the "trinity".
Understood falsely by Orthodox Christians as I said, and as you so eloquently demonstrate..
but the understanding of the "godhead" is there.

Father, Mother, and Son are not a Trinity; One begats, another passes down , and the last is trained.

Female and Child subject unto the Male who is also the Possessor or Originator; with Female and Child being his possessions.

Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
-------------------------------

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Pro 4:5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
Pro 4:6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.

----------------------------------

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

they use Elohim to interpret a one in three or three in one God.

Gen 1:1 In the beginningH7225 GodH430 createdH1254 (H853) the heavenH8064 and the earth.H776

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
-----------


the argument here is God said let us therefore God is one in three or three in one.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
------------

When you can understand that "male", "female" and "son" (child) are eternal spiritual principles
and not mere biological specimens, then we may have something to discuss.

I have heard all the excuses....scripture is never flawed, only misinterpreted.....and even then, God's truth is not hidden from hearts opened by God's spirit. (John 6:44; 65)

I will ask the same of you as I did the last poster who tried to tell me that the trinity was in the Bible. I have studied God's word for 47 years and not once have I ever found a direct statement concerning the existence of a "godhead" or a Being with multiple personality disorder, ever mentioned.

So please give us the scriptures where there is a direct statement from Jesus about him being God from his own mouth.....or with God admitting that he is not the single God of Israel but a three in one substitute that just magically appeared 300 years after Jesus died.

To place the son on equal footing with the Father as God, is a breach of the First Commandment. I wonder who would want to convince "Christians" to do that?

lol.....I don't know if you ever noticed, but the "Father" that the "Christ" (Son) came to reveal to us
was NOT the "god" of the OT.

 

[Deeje]

lol.....I don't know if you ever noticed, but the "Father" that the "Christ" (Son) came to reveal to us
was NOT the "god" of the OT.

Well, I probably never noticed that because it is never mentioned. Jesus was Jewish and God's nation only knew one God, YHWH. We have two gods now? or is it three?

Nowhere in scripture is the son placed on equal footing with his God and Father. He taught us to pray to the same God that he did, calling him "Our Father"...the Father of us all.

Please refer to this post... https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/a-translation-that-proves-church-dogma.230013/page-2#post-6532626

 

[Iymus]

When you can understand that "male", "female" and "son" (child) are eternal spiritual principles
and not mere biological specimens, then we may have something to discuss.

Who is an Originator?

Male being Father?
Female being Mother?
or Child being Offspring?

lol.....I don't know if you ever noticed, but the "Father" that the "Christ" (Son) came to reveal to us
was NOT the "god" of the OT.

Clarification would be appreciated. Are you saying that the God and Father that sent his only begotten son "who declared him" is not the only true God of the OT?

 

[firedragon]

It not so strange anymore to see one constructive response and nine ad hominems.