"A" Torath Mosheh View of Human Suffering and Responsibility

[YoursTrue]

See the below. Enjoy.

So that's why you think the universe is about 14 billion years old? Or not, which is it?

 

[YoursTrue]

Don't know. That is for Christians to sort out among yourselves. I don't know of any Jewish based account to the events you reference.

(I'll believe that...but then since you offer no proof of much, it doesn't matter. No insult intended, of course. I believe what the Bible says, that there is to be a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness is to be -- dwell -- live. By the way my cousin a Jew married a non-Jewish woman. They had a son. She did not convert and he was bar mitzvahed, accepted as a Jew by his progressive synagogue. We shall see what we shall see as time moves ever onward.)

 

[Ehav4Ever]

By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by your comparisons between the trinity and the oral tradition.

If you go back and look at what you wrote you included a statement about your perception about the Oral Torah with a something about the Christian trinity. I am saying that the Oral Torah is nothing that is for you as a JW but as Christian JW you have to own the Christian concept of the trinity because it predates your chosen type of Christianity by about 1,600 years.

Deuteronomy 12:32 - "Every word that I am commanding you is what you should be careful to do. You must not add to it nor take away from it."

I find this funny because whoever translated this for you "added and took away" by the act of changing the name of the text from Devarim (Hebrew) to Deuteronomy (Greek) they, your translator, changed the text. Another interesting point, you state it is Deuteronomy 12:32 but Jewish translations state it is Devarim 13:1. Another change.

Now even worse, your translator did not translate it correctly. Maybe he/she copied from another translation and simply changed the words a bit but the Hebrew text does not translate into what you provided.

Of note is that we all know that translation is a form of commentary. Also, the person who attempted to translate this for you had no way to translate it unless he dictionaries and lexicons on the Hebrew language. All dictionaries and lexicons of the Hebrew original got their information from the Oral Torah. I.e. every tool that Christians had for trying to access the Hebrew language came from the Talmud, Midrashim, etc. i.e. the Oral Torah. Also, the chapter and verse numbers are not found in the original text so the person who translated that for you "added" that. Further, you put the text in bold on a particular part which is an adition. The original text does have words more bold than others. The original does not have commas and periods. All additions.

So, you can't escape the fact that your ability to read a translation, even one that has mistakes, was the result of the exitance of the Oral Torah that Torath Mosheh Jews perserved. You're welcome.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

(I'll believe that...but then since you offer no proof of much, it doesn't matter

You are right. I am the one offering no proof for anything. Just me. I haven't provided any proof for anything I have ever written.

No insult intended,

None taken.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So that's why you think the universe is about 14 billion years old? Or not, which is it?

Not because these videos. Both from research and also from information found in Oral Torah information from the last 2,000 + years.

Did you understand the reasoning mentioned in both videos? What are your thoughts on cosmic microwave background (CMB)? If you prefer I can send up some written information about the research that was done.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by your comparisons between the trinity and the oral tradition. Deuteronomy 12:32 - "Every word that I am commanding you is what you should be careful to do. You must not add to it nor take away from it."

I just thought of something. You have used the name Moses several times in your posts. This name does not show up in the Hebrew text. If this is what shows up in your chosen bible do you consider that your translator is adding and taking away? Since your translator took away one name's original pronunciation (incorrect transliteration) and added another.

 

[YoursTrue]

If you go back and look at what you wrote you included a statement about your perception about the Oral Torah with a something about the Christian trinity. I am saying that the Oral Torah is nothing that is for you as a JW but as Christian JW you have to own the Christian concept of the trinity because it predates your chosen type of Christianity by about 1,600 years.



I find this funny because whoever translated this for you "added and took away" by the act of changing the name of the text from Devarim (Hebrew) to Deuteronomy (Greek) they, your translator, changed the text. Another interesting point, you state it is Deuteronomy 12:32 but Jewish translations state it is Devarim 13:1. Another change.

Now even worse, your translator did not translate it correctly. Maybe he/she copied from another translation and simply changed the words a bit but the Hebrew text does not translate into what you provided.

View attachment 59208

Of note is that we all know that translation is a form of commentary. Also, the person who attempted to translate this for you had no way to translate it unless he dictionaries and lexicons on the Hebrew language. All dictionaries and lexicons of the Hebrew original got their information from the Oral Torah. I.e. every tool that Christians had for trying to access the Hebrew language came from the Talmud, Midrashim, etc. i.e. the Oral Torah. Also, the chapter and verse numbers are not found in the original text so the person who translated that for you "added" that. Further, you put the text in bold on a particular part which is an adition. The original text does have words more bold than others. The original does not have commas and periods. All additions.

So, you can't escape the fact that your ability to read a translation, even one that has mistakes, was the result of the exitance of the Oral Torah that Torath Mosheh Jews perserved. You're welcome.

Thank you for answering. The Bible does not teach that God is a trinity. You might want to read the following brief article about this. There's more in the publications of Jehovah's Witnesses, but time is limited for so many of us so I am linking to a brief summation of why God is not a trinity.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502012486

 

[YoursTrue]

I just thought of something. You have used the name Moses several times in your posts. This name does not show up in the Hebrew text. If this is what shows up in your chosen bible do you consider that your translator is adding and taking away? Since your translator took away one name's original pronunciation (incorrect transliteration) and added another.

Again -- what then would be your preferred English translation?

 

[YoursTrue]

Not because these videos. Both from research and also from information found in Oral Torah information from the last 2,000 + years.

Did you understand the reasoning mentioned in both videos? What are your thoughts on cosmic microwave background (CMB)? If you prefer I can send up some written information about the research that was done.

I believe what the Bible says about this. I know there are differences as to what people believe are the heavens as in Genesis 1:1, but the time element as to the idea of billions, many billions of years, is a bit, shall we say, abstruse as far as I am concerned. I am not a scientist and don't know how they counted the years and as far as science is concerned (2) , I believe that vaccines can be useful. Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (I am sorry but I cannot read or watch everything, my time is limited...) So if there is something you can sum up about this it would be helpful.

 

[YoursTrue]

...


I find this funny because whoever translated this for you "added and took away" by the act of changing the name of the text from Devarim (Hebrew) to Deuteronomy (Greek) they, your translator, changed the text. Another interesting point, you state it is Deuteronomy 12:32 but Jewish translations state it is Devarim 13:1. Another change.

I used a rather standard English translation for this, in English of course. I know neither Hebrew nor Greek. I do know that verses can be different depending on translation. What Jewish translations do you use, and by that I really mean English. I looked up the verse on chabad.org (Devarim 13:1), and here's what it says in English of course:
"Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it."

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Thank you for answering. The Bible does not teach that God is a trinity. You might want to read the following brief article about this. There's more in the publications of Jehovah's Witnesses, but time is limited for so many of us so I am linking to a brief summation of why God is not a trinity.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502012486

Again, you will have take up the trinity thing with your fellow Christians.

Maybe this thread here is one where you can discuss with your fellow Christians what Christianity should beleive on not believe on the that topic.

the trinity, what do you believe?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Again -- what then would be your preferred English translation?

Names, for the sake of prounciation, aren't "translated" they are "transliterated." Because the Hebrew of the Tanakh goes from about 4,000+ years old to about 2,500+ years old one would need go by the most ancient dialects of Hebrew to transliterate as best as possible.

For example, (משה בן עמרם) is best transliterated as Mosheh ben-Amram. (אהרן בן עמרם) is best transliterated as Aharon ben-Amram. (יהושע בן נון) is best transliterated as Yehoshua bin-Nun. (דוד בן ישי) is best transliterated as Dawith ben-Yishai.

I hope that helps.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, you will have take up the trinity thing with your fellow Christians.

Maybe this thread here is one where you can discuss with your fellow Christians what Christianity should beleive on not believe on the that topic.

the trinity, what do you believe?

The kingdom of God is the subject that really is to be discussed. Because the true God will make sure justice prevails forever. Moses knew and wrote there was one true God. Since you are so convinced about your beliefs, I would think you would want to discuss why your beliefs are correct. And why God is NOT like Molech or any other gods, just as Elijah the prophet had done. Since the Bible says at DEVARIM 13 that nothing should be added or taken away from what God HaShem Almighty told Moses I figure that because you are advocating for your beliefs that would be sufficient. The Trinity is not a biblically based concept with substantial foundation similar to -- other things that are manufactured by men (tradition sometimes). Meantime I see nothing that you showed which would show or prove there was an oral law given outside of the written Bible. And that's ok. So -- have a nice evening.
I hope you liked the translation from chabad.org for Devarim 13:1.

 

[YoursTrue]

Names, for the sake of prounciation, aren't "translated" they are "transliterated." Because the Hebrew of the Tanakh goes from about 4,000+ years old to about 2,500+ years old one would need go by the most ancient dialects of Hebrew to transliterate as best as possible.

For example, (משה בן עמרם) is best transliterated as Mosheh ben-Amram. (אהרן בן עמרם) is best transliterated as Aharon ben-Amram. (יהושע בן נון) is best transliterated as Yehoshua bin-Nun. (דוד בן ישי) is best transliterated as Dawith ben-Yishai.

I hope that helps.

As far as names go, Mosheh the son of Amram is Moses to me in English. Have a nice day, same as Jerusalem or Jael is understood in English with a J sound. (Have a nice day...)

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I believe what the Bible says about this. I know there are differences as to what people believe are the heavens as in Genesis 1:1, but the time element as to the idea of billions, many billions of years, is a bit, shall we say, abstruse as far as I am concerned. I am not a scientist and don't know how they counted the years and as far as science is concerned (2) , I believe that vaccines can be useful. Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (I am sorry but I cannot read or watch everything, my time is limited...) So if there is something you can sum up about this it would be helpful.

The Hebrew text says something different than the English OT used by most Christians. For example, this translation below in incorrect. I have highligted several places where the translator has either mistranslated or has provided commentary that doesn't match the Hebrew text. Thus, your conclusion about what even potentially was intended by the original Hebrew text is also subject to being incorrect.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

The kingdom of God is the subject that really is to be discussed.

Again, the kingdom you are talking about is a disagreement between JW Christians and non-JW Christians. No different than the 144,000 thing is between a disagreement between JW Christians and non-JW Christians. You can maybe resolve that with your fellow Christians on the thread below.

The 144,000

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I used a rather standard English translation for this, in English of course. I know neither Hebrew nor Greek. I do know that verses can be different depending on translation. What Jewish translations do you use, and by that I really mean English. I looked up the verse on chabad.org (Devarim 13:1), and here's what it says in English of course:
"Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it."

It is no good. In terms of not knowing Greek. I don't see any reason for you to learn it unless you really want to know what kind of information the NT authors really put in it their writings.

In terms of Hebrew, as a Torath Mosheh Jew learning Hebrew is extremely prized and always has been. Again, you are a JW Christian so I understand that it doesn't have the same value it does for Torath Mosheh Jew.

Again, I am assuming from your words that you only want to know what particular English translations of the Christian perspective of an Old Testament states and not what is actually found in the Hebrew Tanakh.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is no good. In terms of not knowing Greek. I don't see any reason for you to learn it unless you really want to know what kind of information the NT authors really put in it their writings.

In terms of Hebrew, as a Torath Mosheh Jew learning Hebrew is extremely prized and always has been. Again, you are a JW Christian so I understand that it doesn't have the same value it does for Torath Mosheh Jew.

Again, I am assuming from your words that you only want to know what particular English translations of the Christian perspective of an Old Testament states and not what is actually found in the Hebrew Tanakh.

View attachment 59229

I referred to the translation offered at chabad.org for Devarim 13:1.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is no good. In terms of not knowing Greek. I don't see any reason for you to learn it unless you really want to know what kind of information the NT authors really put in it their writings.

In terms of Hebrew, as a Torath Mosheh Jew learning Hebrew is extremely prized and always has been. Again, you are a JW Christian so I understand that it doesn't have the same value it does for Torath Mosheh Jew.

Again, I am assuming from your words that you only want to know what particular English translations of the Christian perspective of an Old Testament states and not what is actually found in the Hebrew Tanakh.

View attachment 59229

ok, you have answered many questions for me, thank you and I am looking forward to the fulfillment of all of God's promises.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I referred to the translation offered at chabad.org for Devarim 13:1.

I don't go by Chabad translations. Again, I don't go by anyone's translation. Everything starts and ends for me at the Hebrew text. Even Chabad would agree that I should only go by the Hebrew text and not their translation.

Also, as a JW I thought you didn't beleive in the Oral Torah. Chabad uses the Oral Torah. Why would you rely on a translation by them knowing that they would use the Oral Torah to convey it? They even include the Rashi commentary in their translation. Do you accept Rashi commentary as valid?