• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

A Thought Question

rosends

Well-Known Member
I haven't really worked through this so maybe there's an obvious answer but anyway...

Being exiled, that is, living in galus is a punishment. We were punished with a loss of homeland and a loss of autonomy. Prophecies to this negative eventuality were made; this is clearly a punishment.

But we teach that man suffers because of his own sin, and the only time we would say that a punishment is visited on children is if the children continue in the sinful path of the parents.

Some info
Children Punished for Sins of Parents - aish.com
Punishing Children for the Sins of their Parents - TheTorah.com

How then, can it be that babies are born in galus? At the moment of birth, the infant has done nothing to affirm the sinfulness of his or her parents, but automatically, the baby is undergoing a punishment, that is, living in exile.

The fact that we are all born with a yetzer hara (as a result of Adam and Chava's eating the fruit) is a consequence of their action -- a change in the nature of mankind. But living in exile is not about a change in people. How can we allow babies to be punished?

(all the moreso, by the way, people who grow up and reach bar mitzvah and haven't committed the sins that mandated exile in the first place)
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
How then, can it be that babies are born in galus? At the moment of birth, the infant has done nothing to affirm the sinfulness of his or her parents, but automatically, the baby is undergoing a punishment, that is, living in exile.

I would say because it depends on how you view the concept of an (עונש). If you see it as a change in circumstance that can be corrected in any generation then you can say that being born in the galut is not an (עונש). Every generation that doesn't correct situation to bring about the (גאולה) it places themselves in (עונש).

For example, as a parent you can put in place all of the tools for yourself to be in the galut or the geula. If you don't use these tools properly then you remain in the galut. Your children either use the tools you had to continue the galut or end it for the geula. Also, you can take the tools you have, not use them to end the galut, but put them in place so your children can end the galut.

Any generation that decides to end the galut will be the gold standard since they decided, collectively, to stop accepting the galuth as a standard.

But living in exile is not about a change in people.

Actually, there are those who say it is. For example, there are Jews living in the land of Israel. Yet, the the galut still continues and even living here, as things are now, is a galut because ending the galuth in reality means the entire Jewish population here turning towards Hashem and Torah and put the steps in to re-establish a Torah based Malchuth.

How can we allow babies to be punished?

If they are babies they are not being punished. Until a certain age they have no real concept of what they are missing or lacking. They further bear no real responsibility for their actions as is. If they, and the entire generation they live in, haven't turned the situation around only then can one say they are in (עונש).

(all the moreso, by the way, people who grow up and reach bar mitzvah and haven't committed the sins that mandated exile in the first place)

That would be something different. That would more be about having a (חלק בעולם הבא). That is not really connected to the galuth. It is no different than the battle that Yehoshua bin-Nun's army was supposed to win but all it took was the actions of one man in the army to make it fail. Once the corrected the situation they accomplished the goal. I.e. we are all interconnected and no different than how you have no minyan until you get that 10th guy - you need an entire generation of Israeli Jews to end the geula.

Also, Galuth is not just being exiled from a particular swath of land but instead mainly not being in the correct circumstance, no matter where one lives.
 
Top