a standing empty cross

[Teritos]

Source?

The Menorah was even in the Temple of God, see bottom right.

Anointing oil was for example a symbol of healing among the Jews, see James 5:14.

 

[Teritos]

Yes. A tree is wood. Hence why the disciples all recorded "tree".

So you agree that this word can refer to any shape of wood?

 

[Teritos]

and what happened to it ? the bible does tell you

What do you mean? Tell it me.

 

[cataway]

What do you mean? Tell it me.

look it up . it will be a great lessen to find out why symbols and imagines are not allowed in the worship of God

 

[Teritos]

look it up . it will be a great lessen to find out why symbols and imagines are not allowed in the worship of God

Look at the temple of God, many images.... very many.
The temple of God = The holiest place

 

[nPeace]

The Menorah was even in the Temple of God, see bottom right.

Anointing oil was for example a symbol of healing among the Jews, see James 5:14.

So your statement is false then.
Menorah and anointing oil are for example jewish symbols.
When someone uses something to symbolize another, is it their symbol? No it's not.
How is oil a Jewish symbol because they use it? How is it their symbol just because James used it symbolically?

So these must be Jewish symbols, right?
(Ephesians 6:14-17) 14 Stand firm, therefore, with the belt of truth fastened around your waist, wearing the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having your feet shod [sandals] in readiness to declare the good news of peace. 16 Besides all of this, take up the large shield of faith, with which you will be able to extinguish all the wicked one’s burning arrows. 17 Also, accept the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, that is, God’s word,

What about when Jesus gave the illustration of the ten virgins - five having oil in their lamps... the marriage feast... the vineyard... etc. Did those all represent Jewish symbols?

The hair must be a Jewish symbol as well right?
Numbers 6:9 If someone suddenly dies in his presence and defiles his consecrated head of hair, he must shave his head on the day of his cleansing--the seventh day.

You are twisting the concept quite badly.
Someone was talking about a Christian symbol, namely

You know... that sort of thing.

Where in the Bible does Jesus say Christians are to have such a symbol, and as @URAVIP2ME has been asking, why would you even want to carry a symbol of an implement of death?

 

[nPeace]

So you agree that this word can refer to any shape of wood?

I told you already. Maybe you did not read it.
Be honest now.... did you read it? Post #38
The very second sentence was clear, I think.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Where in the Bible does Jesus say Christians are to have such a symbol, and as @URAVIP2ME has been asking, why would you even want to carry a symbol of an implement of death?

"But we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness." - 1 Corinthians 1:23

 

[Teritos]

So your statement is false then.
Menorah and anointing oil are for example jewish symbols.
When someone uses something to symbolize another, is it their symbol? No it's not.
How is oil a Jewish symbol because they use it? How is it their symbol just because James used it symbolically?

So these must be Jewish symbols, right?
(Ephesians 6:14-17) 14 Stand firm, therefore, with the belt of truth fastened around your waist, wearing the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having your feet shod [sandals] in readiness to declare the good news of peace. 16 Besides all of this, take up the large shield of faith, with which you will be able to extinguish all the wicked one’s burning arrows. 17 Also, accept the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, that is, God’s word,

What about when Jesus gave the illustration of the ten virgins - five having oil in their lamps... the marriage feast... the vineyard... etc. Did those all represent Jewish symbols?

The hair must be a Jewish symbol as well right?
Numbers 6:9 If someone suddenly dies in his presence and defiles his consecrated head of hair, he must shave his head on the day of his cleansing--the seventh day.

You are twisting the concept quite badly.
Someone was talking about a Christian symbol, namely

You know... that sort of thing.

Where in the Bible does Jesus say Christians are to have such a symbol, and as @URAVIP2ME has been asking, why would you even want to carry a symbol of an implement of death?

I have explained more than twice why the cross is so important to Christians and I have clearly proven to you that Jesus died on a cross. I think you know that I am right, but it's hard for you to admit it. Anyone who is honest here and has read through everything will confirm that.

 

[nPeace]

"But we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness." - 1 Corinthians 1:23

True.

 

[nPeace]

I have explained more than twice why the cross is so important to Christians and I have clearly proven to you that Jesus died on a cross. I think you know that I am right, but it's hard for you to admit it. Anyone who is honest here and has read through everything will confirm that.

Yes, anyone who reads without bias will see the truth - that you have proven nothing... clearly.

 

[Brian2]

I'm having a problem.
Is it an upright stake or a crossbar.
Strong's Greek: 4716. σταυρός (stauros) -- an upright stake, hence a cross (the Rom. instrument of crucifixion)
Later tampering with words, based on beliefs tend to cause confusion.
All the evidence shows that a stake, upright pole, or beam, was the earlier instrument used. The cross is a later usage - Latin crux.
How can that be disputed?

I don't think it is disputed that the earliest usage of stauros was an upright stake. That does not mean that Jesus was crucified on an upright stake. The Romans were into cross beams by the time of Jesus. Jesus carried the cross beam to the place of execution as it seems was the custom.
Jesus had a notice put above his head (not his hands) and there would probably not have been room if Jesus had his hands raised above his head.
Jesus said he had holes for nails (plural) not just one nail, as would be the case with an upright stake.
Jesus prophesied of Peter's death by saying that Peters hands would be stretched out. etc
The WT taught that Jesus died on a cross had illustrations on Watchtower mags and now for some reason, even against the evidence, it is offensive for Christendom to depict Jesus on a cross and is condemned by the WT.

 

[Brian2]

Why do Christians need a symbol? Did jesus have one? Did his apostles have one? Did Jesus tell you to have one?

We do not need a symbol but we have one and the whole world recognises it. It has been of use in spreading the message about Jesus.
The early church had the symbol of the fish.
Why are JWs so much against the use of a cross? It can't be because JWs now know the truth. The evidence points to a cross.
It certainly shows how JWs are manipulated by the WT into believing anything they say and expressing that belief in ways that show the spirit of the WT against Christendom.

 

[Brian2]

So your statement is false then.
Menorah and anointing oil are for example jewish symbols.
When someone uses something to symbolize another, is it their symbol? No it's not.
How is oil a Jewish symbol because they use it? How is it their symbol just because James used it symbolically?

So these must be Jewish symbols, right?
(Ephesians 6:14-17) 14 Stand firm, therefore, with the belt of truth fastened around your waist, wearing the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having your feet shod [sandals] in readiness to declare the good news of peace. 16 Besides all of this, take up the large shield of faith, with which you will be able to extinguish all the wicked one’s burning arrows. 17 Also, accept the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, that is, God’s word,

What about when Jesus gave the illustration of the ten virgins - five having oil in their lamps... the marriage feast... the vineyard... etc. Did those all represent Jewish symbols?

The hair must be a Jewish symbol as well right?
Numbers 6:9 If someone suddenly dies in his presence and defiles his consecrated head of hair, he must shave his head on the day of his cleansing--the seventh day.

You are twisting the concept quite badly.
Someone was talking about a Christian symbol, namely

You know... that sort of thing.

Where in the Bible does Jesus say Christians are to have such a symbol, and as @URAVIP2ME has been asking, why would you even want to carry a symbol of an implement of death?

The symbol is whatever we decide is going to be the symbol.
The cross is perfect because it is the instrument of torture and execution that Jesus endured for our sins. It is the symbol of the gospel above all others. We are not ashamed of the cross, we boast in the cross as Paul does (Gal 6)

 

[cataway]

The symbol is whatever we decide is going to be the symbol.
The cross is perfect because it is the instrument of torture and execution that Jesus endured for our sins. It is the symbol of the gospel above all others. We are not ashamed of the cross, we boast in the cross as Paul does (Gal 6)

how often do you worship with out it ? you are supposed to worship God through and by means of the Christ and yet you's try to do it by means of a great big Tee hung on a wall before a congregation . you dont like what you are being told ?? next time you set in church you will see it. the all mighty Tee killer of Jesus

 

[Brian2]

Your reasoning is appalling - a tree has branches. Wow!, and the constant targeting of the JWs is tiring, as well as the eronious misrepresentation about what JWs do is utterly ridiculous.

It was more like sarcasm concerning the use of Acts 5:30 as you reasoning.
I think this is more a defence against another attack of the WT against Christendom.
We could ignore it, but that would just mean that you would think you are correct.

We are not discussing JWs here we are discussing the instrument which Jesus is supposed to have died on.
There is no evidence supporting your belief.
All the evidence we have, is stated in here, Crucifixion - Wikipedia regarding the word usage, and we have the earliest from the Bible writers who lived closer to that period. None of them mention cross.

This is a good example of the WT and how it brain washes JWs to believe only what they tell them even if it contradicts the Biblical and historical evidence we have.
It certainly shows an attitude/spirit that comes from the WT and is in opposition to the Christian Church.

There are many persons besides JWs who give this same information, so your hangups, jealousy, hatred, or whatever you have for JWs is noted, but it would be appreciated if you stick to the topic at hand, and leave aside your deep seated hatred for the members of the GB. What did they do to you that you are so bent on misrepresenting them?

Whatever it is, they are not the topic of this thread. You have an opportunity to show by use of the Bible that they are wrong, in the thread, I opened personally for you. right now we are discussing the cross.

Bishops and theologians disagree with you. This is not a JWs issue.

It is the JWs who make it an issue. Why?
But it is typical of the WT to find the few dissenters on a topic in Christendom and use them as proof that the rest are wrong.

 

[Brian2]

how often do you worship with out it ? you are supposed to worship God through and by means of the Christ and yet you's try to do it by means of a great big Tee hung on a wall before a congregation . you dont like what you are being told ?? next time you set in church you will see it. the all mighty Tee killer of Jesus

Yes what Jesus did on the cross is what allows us to come to the Father knowing there is peace between God and us.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes what Jesus did on the cross is what allows us to come to the Father knowing there is peace between God and us.

Jesus didn't just die on the cross that we could be forgiven of our sins, but that we could come before God and have a closeness to God that even the Old Testament saints didn't have.

 

[cataway]

It was more like sarcasm concerning the use of Acts 5:30 as you reasoning.
I think this is more a defence against another attack of the WT against Christendom.
We could ignore it, but that would just mean that you would think you are correct.



This is a good example of the WT and how it brain washes JWs to believe only what they tell them even if it contradicts the Biblical and historical evidence we have.
It certainly shows an attitude/spirit that comes from the WT and is in opposition to the Christian Church.



It is the JWs who make it an issue. Why?
But it is typical of the WT to find the few dissenters on a topic in Christendom and use them as proof that the rest are wrong.

It was more like sarcasm concerning the use of Acts 5:30 as you reasoning.
I think this is more a defence against another attack of the WT against Christendom.
We could ignore it, but that would just mean that you would think you are correct.



This is a good example of the WT and how it brain washes JWs to believe only what they tell them even if it contradicts the Biblical and historical evidence we have.
It certainly shows an attitude/spirit that comes from the WT and is in opposition to the Christian Church.



It is the JWs who make it an issue. Why?
But it is typical of the WT to find the few dissenters on a topic in Christendom and use them as proof that the rest are wrong.

why ?? to correct your understanding . you are now on a way leading to death . we dont what you to die . the obligation set on us is show you the way to life . endless life

 

[cataway]

Yes what Jesus did on the cross is what allows us to come to the Father knowing there is peace between God and us.

the device to which he was hung is irrelevant and radicles for it to be held dear. be it a man made cross or the trunk of a tree