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a standing empty cross

cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
such a radicles picture . perhaps we have all see them ,sometimes one cross sometimes three .yeah well, BTW he did not die on a cross but on a single freestanding timber . there is no way that the implement of public disgrace would of remained standing to get him off the thing , it would of had to be laid down to get him off from it. **mod edit**
 
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Harel13

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Naw, he was hung from gallows. You know, like Haman and his ten sons.
 
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Teritos

Teritos

Active Member
cataway said:
such a radicles picture . perhaps we have all see them ,sometimes one cross sometimes three .yeah well, BTW he did not die on a cross but on a single freestanding timber . there is no way that the implement of public disgrace would of remained standing to get him off the thing , it would of had to be laid down to get him off from it. **mod edit**
Click to expand...
The Bible(especially the OT) clearly says that Jesus was hanged on a cross. There is also extra-biblical evidence of it.
See Did Jesus die on a stake or a cross? Jehovah's Witnesses and the cross (carm.org)
 
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Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
cataway said:
such a radicles picture . perhaps we have all see them ,sometimes one cross sometimes three .yeah well, BTW he did not die on a cross but on a single freestanding timber . there is no way that the implement of public disgrace would of remained standing to get him off the thing , it would of had to be laid down to get him off from it. **mod edit**
Click to expand...

Maybe you don't understand symbolism.
I guess there isn't much symbolism in a single freestanding timber, or even 3 of them next to each other.
Don't be jealous that the organisation you trust and obey has decided that you have to believe that Jesus died on a pole.
Actually the Biblical evidence and historical evidence points to a cross as the thing Jesus died on, and that is what the WT taught for many years.
It is sad that JWs believe the WT even when it goes against the evidence we have.
I sometimes wonder why the WT wanted to change it's teaching about that.
 
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exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
cataway said:
such a radicles picture . perhaps we have all see them ,sometimes one cross sometimes three .yeah well, BTW he did not die on a cross but on a single freestanding timber . there is no way that the implement of public disgrace would of remained standing to get him off the thing , it would of had to be laid down to get him off from it. **mod edit**
Click to expand...
What evidence can you produce that it was a free-standing timber?

It is well-attested fact that the Romans commonly (though not invariably) used a crossbeam, which the condemned man had to carry to the place of execution: Crucifixion - Wikipedia.

This is the procedure the gospels record. So why claim it was a free-standing timber?

And, by the way, why do you think it matters?
 
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Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
cataway said:
such a radicles picture . perhaps we have all see them ,sometimes one cross sometimes three .yeah well, BTW he did not die on a cross but on a single freestanding timber . there is no way that the implement of public disgrace would of remained standing to get him off the thing , it would of had to be laid down to get him off from it. **mod edit**
Click to expand...
That sounds more like impalment. As far as I know the Romans didn't utilize it as a means of capital punishment.
Impalment was, however, a preferred method of execution by the Romanian Warlord Vlad Dracul III, who was also known as Vlad Tsepes, meaning Vlad the Impaler, and known as Kaziklu Bey (Impaler Prince) to Ottoman enemies. And it is a very different form of execution, involving a blunt stake of free-standing timber.
But the Romans were known for having an obsession with crucifixion. Doesn't mean they didn't use others, but crucifixion was basically a Roman past time.
 
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Harel13

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Teritos said:
Revelation 1:8
I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
Sign-in-Hebrew.jpg
Click to expand...
I hope you're aware that the Alef here is from Proto-Canaanite, the Vav is vaguely Paleo-Hebrew (though in my opinion looks more like a Y or a Scandinavian rune) and the Tav is Proto-Sinaitic.
 
Rival

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Harel13 said:
I hope you're aware that the Alef here is from Proto-Canaanite, the Vav is vaguely Paleo-Hebrew (though in my opinion looks more like a Y or a Scandinavian rune) and the Tav is Proto-Sinaitic.
Click to expand...
Reminded me of this nonsense,

qsruqthwwcx.jpeg

​
The actual etymology of 'Heru' is "ḥr" meaning 'far/distant' or 'upon/over'. There's no such 'Iusa'.

It's all just ridiculous. I don't know where they come up with this.​
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Teritos said:
The Bible(especially the OT) clearly says that Jesus was hanged on a cross. There is also extra-biblical evidence of it.............
Click to expand...

Please post where in the OT connects Jesus on a cross __________________
The Christian Scriptures were Not originally written in English, so the English word cross does Not appear.
Also, Christians are to walk by faith and Not by sight (sighted things) - 2 Corinthians 5:7
This history of the 'cross' (T shape) dates back before Christian times connected to non-scriptural practices.
Not as an executional symbol but the T or Tau for the pagans as jewelry etc.
In the book History of the Christian Church says: " There was No use of the crucifix........"
So, just because KJV(etc.) uses the English word ' cross ' does Not make the executional stake or pole that Jesus died on as having a crossbar.
Roman executions were often done in groups, so for the soldiers to go to that extra work of adding a crossbeam would Not be to their advantage.
People often think only 3 people died when Jesus died but Luke 23:32 informs us there were also 'other' malefactors....(robbers) which could indicate instead of 3 but 5 at that time.
 
Teritos

Teritos

Active Member
Harel13 said:
I hope you're aware that the Alef here is from Proto-Canaanite, the Vav is vaguely Paleo-Hebrew (though in my opinion looks more like a Y or a Scandinavian rune) and the Tav is Proto-Sinaitic.
Click to expand...
These three letters are ancient Hebrew, you wanna deny it?
alephbet_evolution_1.gif

alephbet_evolution_6.gif

The Letter Tav:
alphabet_chart_tav_1.jpg
 
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Teritos

Teritos

Active Member
Rival said:
Reminded me of this nonsense,

qsruqthwwcx.jpeg

​
The actual etymology of 'Heru' is "ḥr" meaning 'far/distant' or 'upon/over'. There's no such 'Iusa'.

It's all just ridiculous. I don't know where they come up with this.​
Click to expand...
Excuse me? I can prove what I have shown using respected Hebrew dictionaries like Brown-Driver-Briggs. This is a fact.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
exchemist said:
What evidence can you produce that it was a feee-standing timber?
It is well-attested fact that the Romans commonly (though not invariably) used a crossbeam, which the condemned man had to carry to the place of execution: Crucifixion - Wikipedia.
This is the procedure the gospels record. So why claim it was a free-standing timber?
And, by the way, why do you think it matters?
Click to expand...

To me it matters because the Greek word translated by KJV English is Not the English word from Greek for cross.
It is from the word ' crux ', and originally just an upright pole.
The Greek word 'stauros' in classical Greek was merely an upright stake or pale.
In Scripture the word ' xylon ' which was also used and is timber as in a piece of wood, log, post or beam.....
Besides who would cherish a gun, knife, etc. if it was used to execute a loved one ________
Who would make a religious object out of a gun, knife, electric chair, etc. ____________
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Harel13

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Teritos said:


Isn't this Hebrew? The Ox on the right, the nail in the middle and the "cross" on the left?
Click to expand...
Not exactly. The first image you brought, which I see you've now deleted, is of letters that are of different dialects used in Canaan/Land of Israel during different eras. What I was pointing out was that you presented a conflation of different dialects. I don't know if the same meaning you attribute to those old letters can be discerned from using those same letters but within one dialect. In any case, using three letters from three different dialects destroys the symbolism you're arguing for, because it appears unprofessional.

What you've brought here are letters from one dialect but don't quite fall in line with the idea you were previously arguing for.
 
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