A sometimes-overlooked foreknowledge question

[syo]

For those of you who are theists, what, if anything, is wrong with the suggestion that there is a God who does not have the ability to see the future?

There are no surprises in the future.

 

[Nakosis]

Why do you call it " freewill"?
I dont think that is a word.

Definition of FREEWILL

 

[stvdv]

Ah so desu ka

I needed google. My Japanese is zero (plus 4 words now)

 

[Baroodi]

Some people who look at the freewill-versus-foreknowledge debate come down firmly on the side that humans possess freewill and that, as a result, no divine being has perfect foreknowledge.

For those of you who are theists, what, if anything, is wrong with the suggestion that there is a God who does not have the ability to see the future?

That is not God then?
Physicists are trying to travel in time into future

 

[DNB]

Some people who look at the freewill-versus-foreknowledge debate come down firmly on the side that humans possess freewill and that, as a result, no divine being has perfect foreknowledge.

For those of you who are theists, what, if anything, is wrong with the suggestion that there is a God who does not have the ability to see the future?

I believe that you proposed a false dichotomy - the free-will of man does not negate God's ability to, one, anticipate everything that man will do, and two, know everything about them before they are born.
God's sovereignty and man's autonomy are harmonious principles. As a parent who know their children better than they might know themselves, will create an environment that's conducive to how they want their children to develop. The child's innate free-will is not abolished nor compromised, and the Parent still retains their authority and control over their immediate domain. How much more with God whos wisdom surpasses that of any creature on earth.

Love must be free, and therefore God's desire that men love Him and each other necessitates that humans have free-will. But, God is the creator of the universe, and there is nothing within it or outside of it that is beyond His control and jurisdiction. It would be impossible for God not to know what is going to occur within His realm of occupancy or presence, as He created all objects, beings, entities, atoms and molecules within the universe, and has established their capabilities and parameters before the world began.

Man is free, and there is nothing beyond God's realm of expertise and knowledge.

 

[Aupmanyav]

For those of you who are theists, what, if anything, is wrong with the suggestion that there is a God who does not have the ability to see the future?

He has gotten old, white beard, cannot see far. Cataract, Glaucoma, old age diseases.

 

[Etritonakin]

Some people who look at the freewill-versus-foreknowledge debate come down firmly on the side that humans possess freewill and that, as a result, no divine being has perfect foreknowledge.

For those of you who are theists, what, if anything, is wrong with the suggestion that there is a God who does not have the ability to see the future?

There is free will -but there are only so many options at any time from which to choose (You might choose to live on Venus, but....) -and many choices are logically correct (it takes time to see some of those as correct).

Freedom of choice is good for creativity -details -variety, etc. -not for basic law. All will accept true basic law eventually -because it is such.

God also has the power to supersede the will of man.

God did not actually give us complete free will -but gave us a choice between life and death.
There is a time limit -and an ultimatum at the end.
We are given about 120 years limit on personal experience -and 6,000 years collective experience since Adam (not the first man by scientific definition).
Then those who have done good works will be given eternal life -and others "saved, yet so as by fire".

 

[RestlessSoul]

So you get a prophecy which is arguably a reverse of cause and effect.

Then you try to keep it from happening.

Then what? Everything you do ends up
being what causes it, or, can a prophecy be foiled

If we had more information about the future, we could perhaps make more accurate predictions about the past. But our knowledge and understanding of both is insufficient to clear the fog of uncertainty. So even if the universe is completely deterministic, we can be sure of nothing. Best, I think, to take right action, but leave outcomes up to the universe.

 

[David Young]

Post #25: Your reply shows that you have not read the original post.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Some people who look at the freewill-versus-foreknowledge debate come down firmly on the side that humans possess freewill and that, as a result, no divine being has perfect foreknowledge.

For those of you who are theists, what, if anything, is wrong with the suggestion that there is a God who does not have the ability to see the future?

there is absolutely nothing wrong with that view at all.
If a perfect being who is capable of figuring out the most complicated algorythms, who created from nothing, could predict the mechanics-mathematics-phyisics of every lottery that has ever been conduccted..if he exists, then his ability to deduce the future would also be a given.
that doesnt mean we are robots, it just means he knows exactly what we will choose to do given any number of possibilities! IT does not detract from free will any more than i know that if i put a bone in front of a dog and walk away, the dog will eat it (eventually).

 

[viole]

Some people who look at the freewill-versus-foreknowledge debate come down firmly on the side that humans possess freewill and that, as a result, no divine being has perfect foreknowledge.

For those of you who are theists, what, if anything, is wrong with the suggestion that there is a God who does not have the ability to see the future?

I don’t think that foreknowledge and free will are incompatible. Free will is incompatible with a lot of other stuff, but not necessarily with a God who knows what you will decide in advance. I do not see obvious defeaters of even libertarian free will, under the premise of perfect dore knowledge.

when I watch a documentary about, say, Nazi Germany, i know exactly what they will do and how it will end, but that does not defeat the fact of them having had free will. And how is my position as TV watcher of the future, from the one of a God who is everywhere, future included?

Ciao

- viole

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Some people who look at the freewill-versus-foreknowledge debate come down firmly on the side that humans possess freewill and that, as a result, no divine being has perfect foreknowledge.
For those of you who are theists, what, if anything, is wrong with the suggestion that there is a God who does not have the ability to see the future?

When I read perfect I also think of complete foreknowledge.
Paradise (Eden) was lost in Genesis but the Bible promises a return to paradisical conditions - Isaiah 35th chapter.
So, yes, God had foreknowledge about Revelation's happy ending - Revelation 22:2
But, as to 'who' will be part of that happy future is still unknown. God has chosen Not to know who.
This is why the great crowd of people found at Revelation 7:9,14 is an un-known number.
Right now we can be ' penciled in ' God's Book of Life, but Not yet in permanent ink.
We need to endure to the end as Jesus taught at Matthew 24:13.
Endure faithful to death, or be found faithful at Jesus' coming Glory Time found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
Then, after the end of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth only 'permanent ink names' will be here.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If we had more information about the future, we could perhaps make more accurate predictions about the past. But our knowledge and understanding of both is insufficient to clear the fog of uncertainty. So even if the universe is completely deterministic, we can be sure of nothing. Best, I think, to take right action, but leave outcomes up to the universe.

I find we have Bible information about mankind's forever happy outcome or future - Revelation 22:2; Isaiah 35th chapter.
'Earth abides forever' as per Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5.
Wicked people will Not abide but will be be: 'destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
Humble meek people will inherit the Earth as Jesus taught at Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11.

 

[David Young]

For the record, the question is not about how theists address the apparent conflict between human free will and divine foreknowledge. It is about how theists treat the possibility of a god with no foreknowledge, i.e. the god which a particular school of thinking proposes.

 

[Spirit of Light]

For the record, the question is not about how theists address the apparent conflict between human free will and divine foreknowledge. It is about how theists treat the possibility of a god with no foreknowledge, i.e. the god which a particular school of thinking proposes.

My understanding is that humans do not have fully free will in life, each person has been put in to existence in the place we live, to experience certain suffering and certain wonderful aspect of life. But life is like a school. There are rules to be followed so a person can wake up from the life of suffering. And turn it in to a life of peace and calmness.
In my understanding God is the one testing us, but never to far. So God in my belief is still the "boss" over my life.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is no end to his testing. Why did he need to create the world and then put it to tests? What does he achieve by this? Why not he continued to sit on his throne in the sky? What itch did he have?