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Featured A simplistic evidence for purpose

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by osgart, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Why does the human body appear logically formed? For instance the legs and feet are made for walking. The arms and hands are made for carrying and grasping. The eyes are made to guide you around. The ears are for you to hear dangers, and to listen. The mouth is made for expression and intake of food. And all of these things exist to move you around and explore. The will guides actions. The mind and heart take in experiences to inform the will.

    I accept evolution. But i see crude purpose in the way the body is constructed.

    I suppose you are going to say, it is mindless incident with no intention behind it. It just appears that way.

    But it is obvious to me the body has intention in its makings and that assessment is wrong.

    I dont believe in god, or gods. So no rants about that. But i do see purpose in the human body.

    There really shouldnt be any logical function of the body whatsoever with mindless incident.

    There is no law that something has to survive and thrive or come together with any convenience whatsoever.

    People love to imply the body is an accident of nature. People also love to imply that the laws of nature make life that functions inevitable without mind or intention behind it. And then they go into technical facts trying to imply that nature has no intention in it.

    What appears to be is actually true. There is purposes and intentions to the human body. It cannot be explained away.
     
  2. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    If I use a straw to blow ink down a canvas, was that the straw's purpose? Is it just a use? If a stone has a really good shape for being skipped across a pond but I don't choose to pick it up and use it that way, have I denied the stone a purpose? Am I just projecting purpose and intention onto that round flat rock because it seems like the shape is useful for the rock's skipping?
     
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  3. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    There are so many ways to conceive of something -- anything -- having a purpose that the vague notion "everything in nature has a purpose" cannot be falsified.
     
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  4. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Mighty Pirate

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    I think you make a good point, we are all born into this world taking for granted that things 'just are' No matter how miraculous- 'it's natural' So it can be very difficult to objectively recognize where purpose is required

    Ultimately it's not clear anything can exist without it, it's the only phenomena able to act in anticipation of consequences - rather than simply AS a consequence of something already created..

    In short, can there be any true creation without creativity?
     
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  5. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I did not say everything has a purpose, but some things do. A fringe existence of something with intent and creative power. Something that exists in a subtle way.

    Also it could be that people project senselessness to sensible things.

    The point is well made though, it would be absurd to apply purpose to all things in the universe.
     
  6. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes, this problem amounts to just wordplay.

    If I were to say that life's purpose is moral progress, atheists would object because he word "purpose" to most atheists implies a creator. But, I could say that evolution has given our species a moral direction by hard-wiring our brain to reward moral progress, and get no objections from atheists.
     
  7. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Mighty Pirate

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    Yes- it can certainly work both ways! which is the fallacy, depends on which is the ultimate truth, which we don't know

    We can make a distinction though between everything having it's own purpose, and everything requiring one to exist, right?
     
  8. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I should clarify that i was not suggesting that life had an overarching moral purpose.
     
  9. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I dont accept that everything has a purpose. Some things clearly do though.
    And nothing requires purpose to exist, other than life.

    And there is only one purpose i see, and that is the creation of life.
     
  10. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Of course it can be explained away.

    Adaptation.


    Originally we were part of the sea. We're descended from Aquatic Life.

    Going back would be rather difficult now I would think.

    If there's something an organism can do better then its peers then of course it will capitalize on that and the traits get passed down.

    We're humans on land, because we advantageously adapted to the environment.
     
  11. Guy Threepwood

    Guy Threepwood Mighty Pirate

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    to what end?
     
  12. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Hmm... It might not be absurd to think all things exist on purpose. But then, there's that deity thing.
     
  13. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I would be speculating to know the purpose for creating us.

    Perhaps a creative force exists that spawns life merely for curiousitys sake.

    Or perhaps crude intellect in all its flaws just does what it does for no reason but the same reason parents have children.

    And i wouldnt attribute intellect to everything in nature, just some things.

    The purpose is all in the formation of creatures.

    For a higher intellect it does appear haphazard that we should be created.
     
  14. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Purpose implies intent, and intent implies a conscious creator. If not gods, do you believe in human creation by advanced aliens? If our bodies have a purpose, whose purpose do our bodies serve?
     
  15. Thermos aquaticus

    Thermos aquaticus Well-Known Member

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    If we look at other mammal species who walk on their hindlimbs and forelimbs, are they illogically made? What about chimps who use their arms for grasping and walking? Illogical?
     
  16. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    The creator would have to be something inherent to existence, a force of some kind; call it Logia, that intellect always was and always will be. Logia would be a fringe existing force, subtle and undetectable, but it tries to shape and form reality for its purposes.

    But again im speculating. The purpose is solely in the functional properties of the body.

    The idea of God always carries baggage with it. God implies some sort of ideal power. Nothing ideal exists.

    Aliens implies that they somehow mastered existence and by some physical means life can be created in a laboratory. thats a tall order. Im not a physicalist.

    Theres far too many coincidences in nature, and i dont think multiverses are infinitely existing, and evenly distributed among all possibilities. I dont believe in an infinite regression of causes. And even still a multiverse doesnt change anything in regards to purpose vs. Laws, or chance in nature.
     
  17. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    It might mean that we are experimentally created, and adaptation part of the crude creative process.

    It is not entirely clear to me how what the previous generation does affects the next generation in terms of formational limb changes. The environment dictates the information the creature receives, and that information passes down to the spermicide perhaps. It all sounds methodological.
     
  18. Thermos aquaticus

    Thermos aquaticus Well-Known Member

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    The Australopithecines were transitional hominids and they had adaptations for both walking upright like we do and adaptations for knucklewalking like that seen in chimps and other apes. Do you think they were part of the experiment, one that spanned millions of years?

    The environment does not determine which mutations you get, but the environment does determine which mutations are more fit in the environment. Those with fitter mutations tend to have more offspring so that the beneficial changes are passed on at a higher rate.
     
  19. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Its the fact that there is any benefit whatsoever in the changes that is so astounding to me.

    Its a process of trial and error from a state of meagher desparation; the creative process. If the life force had its way it would be everywhere, trying all kinds of things to progress life.
     
  20. Thermos aquaticus

    Thermos aquaticus Well-Known Member

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    It's not that astounding when you compare what humans do to what chimps do. We are great at jogging across grass savannas. Chimps and other apes are terrible at it. Those changes allowed us to move out of the forest and into the savanna where there was less competition. Also, as our hands and arms no longer had to bear our weight in trees they were able to lose some strength and become finer instruments which led to better tool making.
    May the force be with you.
     
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