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A Show Of Hands To A Simple Question

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Skwim, Feb 24, 2019.

?
  1. Free will DOES exist

    22 vote(s)
    64.7%
  2. Free will DOES NOT exist

    3 vote(s)
    8.8%
  3. I dont know

    9 vote(s)
    26.5%
  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    .

    Does free will exist or not?


    This isn't posted to start a discussion, but merely to get an idea of how popular the concept is among RF members. But if anyone does want to discuss the question, feel free.


    If you're not sure what free will is these four definitions should help.

    Free will

    "Tthe ability to choose between different possible courses of action."
    Source: Wikipedia

    "The power or capacity to choose among alternatives or to act in certain situations independently of natural, social, or divine restraints."
    Source: Encyclopaedia Britannica

    "The ability to make your own decisions about what to do, rather than being controlled by God or Fate
    Source: longman dictionary

    "The ability to have done differently"
    Source: Skwim and others

    .



    .
     
  2. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    I don't understand why there would even be any need to question.
     
  3. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    My answer is #3 - I don't know.
     
  4. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Probably should have had another answer like what @sun rise stated
     
  5. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    According to Buddhist (theravada) teaching free will does exist yes. We can choose to do right or wrong action, speech or thought.
     
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  6. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    There ya go guys. "I don't know"

    .
     
  7. Abdemem

    Abdemem Member

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    There are some things where you have no will, no control: example: resurrection day, birth, death, rain ...

    Sourat 31
    34. With God rests the knowledge of the Hour. He sends down the rain, and He knows what the wombs contain. No soul knows what it will reap tomorrow, and no soul knows in what land it will die. God is All-Knowing, Well-Informed.

    You can control your faith, your actions

    Sourat91

    7. And the soul and He who proportioned it.

    8. And inspired it with its wickedness and its righteousness.

    9. Successful is he who purifies it.

    10. Failing is he who corrupts it.
    :
     
  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I was the first to use the "I don't know" option. That being said we do need to generally as a society have to act as if free will existed.
     
  9. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    While we are influenced by many things but none of them are absolute. So we can always exercise free will even when it might be extremely difficult to do so.
    God rarely if ever exerts personal power in the world, as he seems to only work through people by giving a choice.
     
  10. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Me too. I'd go further and say I'll continue to act like there is. The alternative seems unhelpful.
     
  11. Abdemem

    Abdemem Member

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    All in all, no thing can be done without God will, S54, 49. Everything We created is precisely measured.
    S37
    96. When God created you, and what you manufacture?”
    -----------------------------------
    If we stick to our God commands, surely, we will be among the successfull believers, also we need not forget to say: “I will do that tomorrow If God wills.” that's what the coran teach us
    S18
    23. And never say about anything, “I will do that tomorrow.”

    24. Without saying, “If God wills.” And remember your Lord if you forget, and say, “Perhaps my Lord will guide me to nearer than this in integrity.”

    As you can not guarantee anything, you may do your best to fullfill your engagement, but you never know, what will happen in the upcoming instants...
     
  12. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Since God decrees all things would you consider that there to be elements of divine determinism?
     
  13. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Free will does exist,you have the ability to choose or make a decision.
     
  14. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    It depends what you are prepared to regard as "free will". The only kind that makes sense, as far as I can see, is compatibilism. The first three definitions would then apply but the fourth becomes problematic.

    On the other hand, the fourth is problematic anyway. If you could literally rewind time and be faced with exactly the same situation in exactly the same state of mind and you could have chosen differently, then the reason you would/could have can be nothing to do with you - it can only be random.
     
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  15. Abdemem

    Abdemem Member

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    Sourate 2
    148. To every community is a direction towards which it turns. Therefore, race towards goodness. Wherever you may be, God will bring you all together. God is capable of everything.

    This verse shows us that we have control on our actions

    But in the otehr hand, there are things to which we have no control over them and no choice, it is our Creator who chooses for us, examples: our birth, birth date, birth place,sex, parents, our abilities in general.
    And there are things to which we have the choice to do or not to do, it is we who will have to assume them: example doing our prayers, good actions, telling the truth or lies, to associate with God a divinity or not etc .. .
    If we think that God guides us in all our wishes, we are in absolute error, because so there will be neither paradise nor hell, success, decay, belief or unbelief.
    God tells us in Sourate 6
    148. The polytheists will say, “Had God willed, we would not have practiced idolatry, nor would have our forefathers, nor would we have prohibited anything.” Likewise those before them lied, until they tasted Our might. Say, “Do you have any knowledge that you can produce for us? You follow nothing but conjecture, and you only guess.”
     
  16. Abdemem

    Abdemem Member

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    Not all things, we have some control on our actions as stated in my last comment,

    If we think that God guides us in all our wishes, we are in absolute error, because so there will be neither paradise nor hell, success, decay, belief or unbelief.
    God tells us in Sourate 6
    148. The polytheists will say, “Had God willed, we would not have practiced idolatry, nor would have our forefathers, nor would we have prohibited anything.” Likewise those before them lied, until they tasted Our might. Say, “Do you have any knowledge that you can produce for us? You follow nothing but conjecture, and you only guess.”
     
  17. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    I don't think being all powerful should be confused with a free will.
     
  18. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Is that so?

    I don't think I have seen that stated quite that clearly anywhere. Do you have a reference?

    I answered "no", mainly because the very concept of free will has never been presented to me in a form that made much sense.

    In truth, it looks like a fascinating concept... for a wild tale of speculative fiction with no regard for verisimilitude.
     
  19. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    In the sutta Attakari Sutta Buddha response like this

    Then a certain brahman approached the Blessed One; having approached the Blessed One, he exchanged friendly greetings. After pleasant conversation had passed between them, he sat to one side. Having sat to one side, the brahman spoke to the Blessed One thus:

    “Venerable Gotama, I am one of such a doctrine, of such a view: ‘There is no self-doer, there is no other-doer.’”[1]

    “I have not, brahman, seen or heard such a doctrine, such a view. How, indeed, could one — moving forward by himself, moving back by himself [2] — say: ‘There is no self-doer, there is no other-doer’? What do you think, brahmin, is there an element or principle of initiating or beginning an action?”[3]

    “Just so, Venerable Sir.”

    “When there is an element of initiating, are initiating beings [4] clearly discerned?”

    “Just so, Venerable Sir.”

    “So, brahmin, when there is the element of initiating, initiating beings are clearly discerned; of such beings, this is the self-doer, this, the other-doer. [5]

    “What do you think, brahmin, is there an element of exertion [6] ... is there an element of effort [7] ... is there an element of steadfastness [8] ... is there an element of persistence [9] ... is there an element of endeavoring?” [10]

    “Just so, Venerable Sir.”

    “When there is an element of endeavoring, are endeavoring beings clearly discerned?”

    “Just so, Venerable Sir.”

    “So, brahmin, when there is the element of endeavoring, endeavoring beings are clearly discerned; of such beings, this is the self-doer, this, the other-doer. I have not, brahmin, seen or heard such a doctrine, such a view as yours. How, indeed, could one — moving forward by himself, moving back by himself — say ‘There is no self-doer, there is no other-doer’?”

    “Superb, Venerable Gotama! Superb, Venerable Gotama! Venerable Gotama has made the Dhamma clear in many ways, as though he were turning upright what had been turned upside down, revealing what had been concealed, showing the way to one who was lost, or holding up a lamp in the dark: ‘Those who have eyes see forms!’ Just so, the Venerable Gotama has illuminated the Dhamma in various ways. I go to Venerable Gotama as refuge, and to the Dhamma, and to the assembly of monks. From this day, for as long as I am endowed with breath, let Venerable Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge.”

    My comment here: There is no permanent self, But as human beings we do do actions out of free will, meaning when we deside what to do we can choose to do right or wrong action. we are not bound to only do one action, so as my understanding we do have free will to choose what to do
     
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  20. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    I see. But this is the major problem that I've found philosophically with the Ash'rite school of thought concerning predetermination and freewill. Accountability is measured on the day of judgment but freewill happens by the determination of God. The problem also lies is how much accountability do I truly have versus what I'm really not accountable for.
     
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