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A Scripture for the Apostasy

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Bishka, Jul 16, 2006.

  1. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    Amos was a prophet in the Old Testament, and he forsaw the lose of the preisthood after Christ's death.

    "...a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord." (Amost 8:11)
     
  2. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Eisegesis is the art/fallacy of reading into scripture what you want to hear. In this case you've managed to strain credulity to a breaking point while demonstrating a ready willingness to cherry-pick Amos without regard to Amos. You might wish to review Amos 1:1 (also Zech. 14:5). On what evidence do you maintain that your Christ-connection is anything other than wishful delusion? Specifically, on what basis do you maintain that your theory is preferable to the explanation offered by bible.org
    This refers to a well-known earthquake that occurred during the first half of the 8th century b.c. According to a generally accepted dating system, Uzziah was a co-regent with his father Amaziah from 792-767 b.c. and ruled independently from 767-740 b.c. Jeroboam II was a co-regent with his father Joash from 793-782 b.c. and ruled independently from 782-753 b.c. Since only Uzziah and Jeroboam are mentioned in the introduction it is likely that Amos’ mission to Israel and the earthquake which followed occurred between 767-753 b.c. The introduction validates the genuine character of Amos’ prophetic ministry in at least two ways: (1) Amos was not a native Israelite or a prophet by trade. Rather he was a herdsman in Tekoa, located in Judah. His mere presence in the northern kingdom as a prophet was evidence that he had been called by God (see 7:14-15). (2) The mighty earthquake shortly after Amos’ ministry would have been interpreted as an omen or signal of approaching judgment. The clearest references to an earthquake are 1:1 and 9:1, 5. It is possible that the verb &#1492;&#1464;&#1508;&#1463;&#1498;&#1456; (hafakh, “overturn”) at 3:13-15, 4:11, 6:11, and 8:8 also refers to an earthquake, as might the descriptions at 2:13 and 6:9-10. Evidence of a powerful earthquake has been correlated with a destruction layer at Hazor and other sites. Its lasting impact is evident by its mention in Zech 14:5 and 2 Chr 26:16-21. Earthquake imagery appears in later prophets as well (cf. D. N. Freedman and A. Welch, “Amos’s Earthquake and Israelite Prophecy,” Scripture and Other Artifacts, 188-98). On the other hand, some of these verses in Amos could allude to the devastation that would be caused by the imminent military invasion.​
    Just as some see the Virgin Mary in the decaying face of a Chicago overpass, others insinuate Jesus whenever and wherever their imagination allows.
     
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  3. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    Jay, I was taking this scripture from an LDS Christian viewpoint, not yours.

    Well, I for one do not see it as a delusion, and appreciate it if you would not call what I believe as delusions.

    And you let you imagination go so far as to insuiate I am a delusioner.
     
  4. Polaris

    Polaris Active Member

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    Did you even read the verses Becky made reference to?

    "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the word of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it."

    How exactly does that refer to an earthquake? So, "famine of the word of the Lord" = "big earthquake"? It sounds like you've "managed to strain credulity to a breaking point". A "famine of the word of the Lord" sure sounds like a form of apostasy to me. Maybe you're the one guilty of eisegesis.

    Amos 1:1 is simply providing historical context (who was he, when/where was his ministry, etc). Just because it makes reference to an earthquake doesn't mean that it was the focus of ALL his writings. For example, In Amos 9 he prophesies about the dispersion of Isreal and then the future gathering of the Isrealites to their own land.

    "I will sift the house of Israel among all nations"(v 9)

    "And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them"(v 15)

    Or is this just another extremely abstract reference to the earthquake?



    Plain and simple common sense -- assuming that a "famine of the word of the Lord" actually means what it says.

    I'll admit that its not clear whether the famine (i.e. apostasy) refers to a post-Christ apostasy or a pre-Christ apostasy, but it seems quite clear that it refers to some period in which the word of God is missing from the world.
     
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  5. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    It could just as easily refer to a time 2,000 years from now after a nuclear war when all books have been burnt for fuel.

    I think the text is too vague (as most prophecy is) to draw any worthwhile conclusions.
     
  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I'll take that as begrudging agreement.
     
  7. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    My question - unanswered - was an honest one and, I believe, fully pertinent. In my opinion, to suggest that an Amos polemic against 8th century BCE greed, injustice, and idolatry is a prophesy of a 1st century CE messiah strains credulity.
     
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  8. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Becky,

    As Jay has pointed out, there are various possible interpretations for this verse. Obviously, I believe the one you suggested is correct. ;) Polaris and I are not the only ones who would see it the way you do. I'd like to direct you to a fascinating story. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

    http://www.members.shaw.ca/mschindler/C/Specht.htm

     
  9. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    This wasn't menat to be confertational, and maybe I should have stuck in the Smae Faith Debates only. I was more actually hoping the Catholics would get involved. Anyway that any mods could do that for me?
     
  10. PHOTOTAKER

    PHOTOTAKER Well-Known Member

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    heres another scriptor that kinda gose along with it see what you thank...

    isaiah 24:5-6
    5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
    6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

    i do not thank that the word "burn" is leteral but more "your in truble!!!" these two verses are very anoying they happen over and over and over and over and over and over agin... people never learn...
     
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    You might wish to ask yourself why you wish to so insulate your position. That said, the thread could have been posted in the Christianity forum as "Christians: A Scripture for the Apostasy".
     
  12. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    And I should have, that's the sort of answers I was hoping for, but I was not thinking that clearly or just completley had a brain fart when I was making this thread--all in all, it is my fault that it is not in the correct.

    Jayhawker, I'm not insulated my position, I wanted the view of the Christians, and I realized I placed in the wrong place.

    If I really wanted to debate with all, I would have not said anything of where this thread was located.
     
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