A request for a Sanatana Dharma DIR- Dharmic and Staff members Only

[Ravi500]

Which shows your understanding of Bhagavad Gita is vague..

Dharma and Adharma are dependent on various conditions. The same Ahimsa can become Adharma.

Jai Krishna.

Humility; pridelessness; nonviolence; tolerance; simplicity; approaching a bona fide spiritual master; cleanliness; steadiness; self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification; absence of false ego; the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease; detachment; freedom from entanglement with children, wife, home and the rest; even-mindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me; aspiring to live in a solitary place; detachment from the general mass of people; accepting the importance of self-realization; and philosophical search for the Absolute Truth — all these I declare to be knowledge, and besides this whatever there may be is ignorance. -- Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita 13.8-12)


The Blessed Lord said: Fearlessness, purification of one's existence, cultivation of spiritual knowledge, charity, self-control, performance of sacrifice, study of the Vedas, austerity and simplicity; nonviolence, truthfulness, freedom from anger; renunciation, tranquility, aversion to faultfinding, compassion and freedom from covetousness; gentleness, modesty and steady determination; vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, freedom from envy and the passion for honor--these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature. ( Bhagavad Gita Chapter 16, verses 1-3 )

Dharma & Adharma depends on various conditions. In Sanatana dharma, above statement has no existence.

For some time, Adharma becomes Dharma and Dharma becomes Adharma. himsa is forbidden in many conditions, the same himsa is clearly allowed for Kshatriyas. When he would not kill people in battle it will become adharma though killing someone is generally considered as Adharma.

And would Duryodhana's action as a Kshatriya in waging war against Krishna and the Pandavas inspite of Krishna's numerous diplomatic endeavours and the Pandava's self-effacing nature, Dharma !

So, even for a Kshatriya, proper understanding of Dharma is needed, along with its precise application, or else it will be disastrous like what happened to Duryodhana and company.

Also non-violence is not just limited to deeds, but also in thoughts and words. Rama and Krishna were sweet and inoffensive in their language and were noted for their sweet speech and never made derogatory speech or remarks in civilian life . Do bear this as well in mind if you want to win the grace of the Lord . :namaste

 

[LuisDantas]

Hi Ratikala.

all I am suggesting is a sub section as in Buddhism DIR you have four we have one ?

So you want a Sanatana Dharma DIR as a subforum tied to the Hinduism DIR (much like the Hinduism DIR itself is found under the Dharmic Religions DIR)?

and considering the vast difference in the different traditions grouped under the Hindu umbrella , prehaps like Buddhism Dir we could accomodate a few without fear of total confusion ???

Maybe you want to ask me (or whoever you want to answer your question) this again in the Dharmic Religions DIR? Or even in one of the debate areas?

This is a blue DIR...

 

[Stormcry]

I do not belive it , you are giving a very poor inturpretation , ...the whole purpose of Lord Buddha' apperance is to re establish Dharma . Ahimsa is only a part of that Dharma ....

Pranam Ratikala..
This means you don't believe in Scriptures. This is out of my understanding.. how the purpose of establishment of buddha avatar was to establish Dharma ? According to Aryas, Dharma is synonymous to Veda. He is the lord Buddha who deny teachings of Veda and denying or not believing in teachings of Veda is Adharma.

Another absurd thing ! Though you're a vaishnawa you don't believe in Bhagavata Purana nor in sacred kalki purana that describes life of vishnu's last avatara.

in this you are correct , but it is also true that by killing Kalki liberates even the atheists and the miscreants ...

No this isn't true. In kalki purana there's a verse saying that lord kalki will kill mlecchas and will send them hells. However it is stated that mlecch's wife will take weapons for fighting with kalki. But at last they'll surrender to the supreme feet of lord Vishnu and they'll attain that supreme abode of vishnu.

It's just clear for me. You must read kalki purana to get cleared.

 

[Stormcry]

Maybe you want to ask me (or whoever you want to answer your question) this again in the Dharmic Religions DIR? Or even in one of the debate areas?

Hello...

Is it possible to rename hinduism dir as hinduism(sanatana Dharma) dir or Sanatana Hinduism DIR ? This is my request.

Most of hindus here don't want a Sanatana Dharma DIR or subdir. Sanatana Dharma is what hinduism is. If someone really want a subdir, then it shouldn't be by a name Sanatana dharma as it'll confuse others. The subsection should be like by name - Dharmic traditions or universal hinduism ( which is irrespective of sects. ). It'll contain discussions on common hindu beliefs like reincarnation, avatara etc.

I think no here here really wants a Sanatana dharma. If you wanna check take a poll.

Thank you.

 

[Madhuri]

Staff Announcement

****This thread has been moved to Same Faith Debates****
​

 

[LuisDantas]

I think no here here really wants a Sanatana dharma. If you wanna check take a poll.

To me personally, it seems fairly clear that there are very few people who want a Sanatana Dharma area to coexist with a Hinduism area (even if one is tied to the other). With only three exceptions that I can think of, most people think it would be unadvisable.

I agree. And seeing how even the three proponents of a Sanatana Dharma area don't even manage a rough agreement among them about what it should aim for or how it should be done (if anything, they are directly at odds with each other), I think the odds are very slim to none of that happening any time soon.

If anyone is bothered by that, my suggestion is to start a poll thread (not my place to do that, and I am not interested either, truth be told). And if you are going to do that, by all means go all the way and be specific. Say in which sense you understand Sanatana Dharma to be not exactly the same as Hinduism and why it is important enough of a matter that you want to have a separate or subordinate area.

The discussion itself could perhaps be interesting if done with some care and considerable attention to mutual respect. The creation of such an area is however not likely to happen any time soon. I'm not talking with any authority, but I sure believe in that.

Also, for the time being, discussions about Sanatana Dharma as different from Hinduism are probably best left out of the Hinduism DIR entirely. Quite frankly, you don't need the stress.

Same Faith Debates could be a good place for them, as long as all participants are understood or at least expected to be Hindus and/or Sanatana Dharmi. General Religious Debates could be even better, particularly if Buddhists, Jains or Sikhs are supposed to figure into Sanatana Dharma in any way. Discussing the matter in a blue Hinduism DIR is... just not a good idea IMO.

 

[LuisDantas]

Now that this thread has been moved, I will answer some posts.

Friend LuisDantas,

Well understand what you have said and finally am making a pitch for a forum 'sanatan dharma' under "Everything under the kitchen sink"; sound totally out of place?

It seems to me that taking the matter outside of the religious areas entirely is a bit too... zen.

The natural place for such discussions about Sanata Dharma as an all-encompassing purpose or principle for religion in general would be either General Religious Debates or Religious Debates, far as I can see. It is a naturally controversial matter and should be acknowledged as such.

I would suggest Dharmic Religions DIR, but it does not seem to be a good fit. Not only because you explicit mention the Abrahamic Faiths (and more IIRC) as also being a part of it, but also because I don't think it is realistic to expect debate not to happen.

(...)

Well the results are not for me to consider but only to do my duty.

This I just did not understand. Why do you say the results are not for you to consider, when it is after all your proposal?

 

[Stormcry]

Say in which sense you understand Sanatana Dharma to be not exactly the same as Hinduism and why it is important enough of a matter that you want to have a separate or subordinate area.

Hello brother...

I think it is needless/useless to create a Sanatana dharma forum just from a request of couple of persons who don't like a hindu word.

As Sanatana Dharma is an alternative name of Hinduism, it would be a funny game to find differences between Sanatana Dharma and hindu dharma. (See Wikipedia page). If we create such forum it will confuse others. Already many people are confused about Hinduism. I'm sure that the output will be nothing.

I have a different much better request which has something to consider.

Can hinduism Dir become Hinduism(Sanatana Dharma) dir ?this would reflect traditional definition along with modern definition. And we should include "universal hinduism" as a subsection in which common beliefs between various sects of Hinduism should be discussed ? What do you say ?

Thank you....

 

[Ravi500]

Hinduism and Snatan Dharma are same. And if there is something that can't be discussed here but you believe it to be Dharmic, for this we already have Dharmic Religions DIR, make post there so that all can discuss freely.

I have in the past deliberately posted in Dharmic DIR with the hope of opening a discussion which was open to all Dharmic faiths only to be attaced by Buddhists who wanted the discussion in Buddhist DIR where there were then complaints about non Buddhists posting there .....? ... oh well I tried .

This is also a good point, which warrants a new forum for this purpose.

I appreciate Ratikalaji's endeavour to create a sense of fellowship and solidarity among the various Dharmic faiths .

:namaste

 

[atanu]

This is also a good point, which warrants a new forum for this .....

:namaste

Can you kindly explain ? A new forum with what name and what purpose?

 

[zenzero]

Friend LuisDantas,

Why do you say the results are not for you to consider, when it is after all your proposal?

Dharma in practise, friend.
Forget Gita? 'Do your work...without expecting the result'.

Whatever be the result am already committed to dharma in spirit whether sanatan dharma is under the sink or some place else dhrama remains eternal/sanatan.

Love & rgds

 

[Stormcry]

This is also a good point, which warrants a new forum for this purpose.

:namaste

There's no any reason to create a Sanatana dharma forum. Why are you desperate to open a forum by name Sanatana dharma and not by any other name ? Yes, create any forum anywhere but not by Sanatana Dharma. As Sanatana dharma is an alternative name of Hinduism, find a different name for forum wherein you want Buddhists too.

Creating Sanatana Dharma subdir/dir is highly unacceptable. My request is that hinduism dir should be renamed to hinduism(sanatana Dharma) Dir. And whatever you want to add you add in subdir . No one will offend.

Thank You...

 

[Ravi500]

Can you kindly explain ? A new forum with what name and what purpose?

It is actually very much in line with the suggestions I made in this post of mine.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3737836-post25.html

There can be a Sanatana Dharma DIR that focusses solely on the fundamental teachings of Hinduism strictly without any contradiction of the scriptural teachings or the enlightened masters of modern times. This can be made a blue dir.

A secondary Hinduism forum can also be put , a green dir, that can be more liberal and gives space to traditions such as Buddha Dharma, Jaina Dharma, Sikh Dharma, Charvak Dharma, which has its roots in it, and which would be ideal for syncretists who wish to discuss issues ,with the view of establishing cordiality and fellowship among the Dharmics, especially Dharmic syncretists, and learning from each other.

 

[atanu]

It is actually very much in line with the suggestions I made in this post of mine.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3737836-post25.html

There can be a Sanatana Dharma DIR that focusses solely on the fundamental teachings of Hinduism strictly without any contradiction of the scriptural teachings or the enlightened masters of modern times. This can be made a blue dir.

A secondary Hinduism forum can also be put , a green dir, that can be more liberal and gives space to traditions such as Buddha Dharma, Jaina Dharma, Sikh Dharma, Charvak Dharma, which has its roots in it, and which would be ideal for syncretists who wish to discuss issues ,with the view of establishing cordiality and fellowship among the Dharmics, especially Dharmic syncretists, and learning from each other.

Ravi thanks for clarifying.

As pointed out by ShivaFan and other posters, including me, two forums named "Hinduism" and "Sanatana Dharma" will add to more confusion.

Already there is a Dharmic forum for this purpose.

 

[LuisDantas]

It should be kept in context that the Sanatana dharma that Hindus talk about is also called Vaidika dharma.

Yes, brother. Hindu, Vedic, Arya are just adjectives given by us to our loving Dharma for viewing it from different angles . In reality, our greatest Dharma is Nameless.

Hindu Dharma = Hindu's Dharma ( Hindu word is derived from Vedic word Indu or Bharata. Hindu means who are descended from Indra or from Seven Rishis)

Vaidika dharma = Dharma based on Veda. This term is used to exclude Abrahamic religions and Buddhism or Jainism.

Arya Dharma = Dharma of Aryas. I see this term more accurate even than Vaidika. I have read the mention of this Arya Dharma term in many puranas. So this is the most ancient name of our Hinduism.

Maybe a thread attempting to create a glossary in the Dharmic Religions would be a good idea.

A convenient place to quickly find out balanced, well-informed explanations about how exactly Hinduism, Vaidika Dharma, Arya Dharma and Sanatana Dharma relate to each other and which the main disagreements on the matter are, among other topics that some people perceive as controversial while others feel to be well resolved and behind them.

Instead of bringing the same points endlessly and tiring of them, you could them direct people to check the glossary thread and ask them to propose additions and changes there.

I anticipate that Sanata Dharma, for instance, would be defined somewhat along these general lines:

Sanatana Dharma

1. As generally understood, Sanatana Dharma (Eternal Dharma, loosely translated as Eternal Doctrine) is a traditional name for Hinduism. See also Vaidika Dharma (a name that references the Vedas) and Arya Dharma (which references the Arya people).
   
   Perceived advantages of that interpretation include its undeniable demographic success and lessened potential for unintentional confusion and misundestandings.
   
   Perceived disadvantages include a lack of expression of desire to reach out for doctrines, practices and teachings that are not generally understood as Hindu. In some contexts that may be undesirable. It has been noted that this is basically the flip side of the perceived advantages above.
   
   
2. An alternate interpretation of the expression, often used in contexts where it is desired to express approval and/or admiration for the efforts of religious groups, teachers or authors, is that any valid and constructive religious action may be considered in harmony with the deepest goals of Hinduism and should therefore be praised as part of Sanatana Dharma. It amounts to a deliberate blurring of the boundaries between Hindu teachings and non-Hindu teachings, as a display of respect and/or appreciation.
   
   Perceived advantages of this interpretation are the expression of trust and good will, which are understood to encourage mutual respect and understanding, which are of course universally desired.
   
   Perceived disadvantages of this interpretation are the potential for confusion, often unintended and even well-meaning but nevertheless undesirable. Anedoctal evidence exists of at least one instance where it led to a misunderstanding, with a Catholic ending up believing that Catholicism is seen by Hindus as an universal religion while also being fundamentally distinct from Hinduism. That episode is generally understood as being a benign yet regrettable stance of undue extrapolation.
   
   It should also be noted that deciding to label people as Sanatana Dharmi (practicioners of Sanata Dharma) without their approval, agreement, consent or sometimes even without their knowledge is generally understood as an unwise, adharmic action since it so easily leads to ill feelings for no good reason. It has also been stated that it is, by definition, invasive.
   
   
3. Another alternate interpretation says that some or all religions generally understood to have a Dharmic approach (most often Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism, sometimes Taoism or even Confucionism; opinions may vary) are to be considered as part of Sanata Dharma as well. Historical links, well-documented or speculative, are often mentioned as part of the justification for this interpretation.
   
   Perceived advantages of this interpretation are mainly of a syncretic bent. It is favored by those who have a high regard for reaching out for other Dharmas.
   
   Perceived disadvantages include the potential for creating conflict due to perceived or real misunderstandings. It must be noted that efforts at communicating with other Dharmas are not without dangers of their own. Under some circunstances, attempting to present a common legacy or origin may easily be seen as disrespectful and/or invasive.

If you Hindus spend some effort building something along those lines, maybe it will help at least in avoiding raising the same misunderstandings time and again.

 

[Stormcry]

There can be a Sanatana Dharma DIR that focusses solely on the fundamental teachings of Hinduism strictly without any contradiction of the scriptural teachings or the enlightened masters of modern times. This can be made a blue dir.

This is so much absurd. You are saying that fundamental teachings should be put in Out of Hinduism DIR. Not acceptable. And you're saying that we should put there teachings of modern enlightened persons. This is also not acceptable. Who's gonna decide who is enlightened or who is not enlightened. So before discussing there we would have to make a thread eg.. Was swami Prabhupada enlightened or not ? Who'll answer and why should we answer. Who knows if someone is enlightened or not ?

A secondary Hinduism forum can also be put , a green dir, that can be more liberal and gives space to traditions such as Buddha Dharma, Jaina Dharma, Sikh Dharma, Charvak Dharma, which has its roots in it, and which would be ideal for syncretists who wish to discuss issues ,with the view of establishing cordiality and fellowship among the Dharmics, especially Dharmic syncretists, and learning from each other.

Hinduism has nothing to do with teachings of Buddhism or Jainism. It is complete in itself and eternal as it is purely based on vedic teachings.

I think we should mentain quality of religious Forums DIR.... Illogical Dir are not accepted.

 

[LuisDantas]

It is actually very much in line with the suggestions I made in this post of mine.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3737836-post25.html

There can be a Sanatana Dharma DIR that focusses solely on the fundamental teachings of Hinduism strictly without any contradiction of the scriptural teachings or the enlightened masters of modern times. This can be made a blue dir.

A secondary Hinduism forum can also be put , a green dir, that can be more liberal and gives space to traditions such as Buddha Dharma, Jaina Dharma, Sikh Dharma, Charvak Dharma, which has its roots in it, and which would be ideal for syncretists who wish to discuss issues ,with the view of establishing cordiality and fellowship among the Dharmics, especially Dharmic syncretists, and learning from each other.

I see a major problem with that approach. Who gets to decide what the fundamental teachings of Hinduism are, and with which authority?

Perhaps more pragmatically, how many and which people will support and agree with whatever answer you give to that question?

It seems to me that you are proposing not a solution as such, but more of a goal to aim for.

 

[LuisDantas]

Namaskaram prabhu ji's :namaste

there has been much talk in Hindu DIR about what constitutes Dharma and what makes one a Hindu

I would like to ask not just about what is our svadharma, our 'personal duty' ...

I would like to discuss how we understand 'Sanatana Dharma' ....the fundamental unchanging principles ...the Eternal Truth ...which lay at the core of Hinduism and other Dharmicaly based faiths .

personaly there is something that appeals very deeply to me in its non sectarian nature and in truth if some one were to ask my religion I would prefer to say Sanatana Dharma than I would to say Hindu .

without wishing to disrespect Hinduism in any manner , I feel that the term Samatana Dharma concentrates solely on the fundamental religious principles which underlay most traditions leaving aside all the accreations of culture and cast making all who embrace those values and beleifs feel equaly welcome .

therefore I would like to ask others to join me in requesting a Sanatana Dharma DIR
personaly I belive it should be green as the principles of Sanatana Dharma form the foundation also of other traditions such as Buddhism jainism and sikhi , and that such a DIR would provide a space for open and freindly discussion .

I look forward to hearing your thoughts :namaste

In the interests of seeking the best possible harmony, Ratikala, I ask you to take a look at my proposal in post #76 above.

I wrote it, of course, in its current form. It is my understanding that you support interpretation #3. Do you agree? Would you have some suggestion about how to word it exactly?

 

[atanu]

Namaskaram prabhu ji's :namaste


I would like to discuss how we understand 'Sanatana Dharma' ....the fundamental unchanging principles ...the Eternal Truth ...which lay at the core of Hinduism and other Dharmicaly based faiths .

personaly there is something that appeals very deeply to me in its non sectarian nature and in truth if some one were to ask my religion I would prefer to say Sanatana Dharma than I would to say Hindu .

Namaskar Ratikala

As my earlier post on this was not noticed, I am enumerating my views again.

• Many Hindus may not know the Vedas, but Hinduism's roots are in the Vedas (and agamas). By Sanatana dharma is meant the Vaidika dharma. No path based on the Vedas is Godless.
  
• Many debates that have taken place here has been due to a single reason. I will not repeat that.
  
• Two forums, one named Sanatana dharma and another Hinduism, will be utterly confusing.

 

[Ravi500]

I see a major problem with that approach. Who gets to decide what the fundamental teachings of Hinduism are, and with which authority?

Perhaps more pragmatically, how many and which people will support and agree with whatever answer you give to that question?

It seems to me that you are proposing not a solution as such, but more of a goal to aim for.

The fundamental teachings of Hinduism , of course, are those which are considered astika, as distinguished from nastika.

Āstika and nāstika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia