A (religious) perspective on creation - for theists and atheists - from the RigVeda

[ManSinha]

I have been a lurker and a mute witness to the to-and-fro discussions about creation from a religious as well as a non-religious perspective.

There are often comments made that "Gods and Religion are man-made"

Many of the religions postulate a creator - also elevated to the status of God -

There are not many - that proclaim that it is a mystery - IOW "We do not know....who did it? why it was done and in what manner"

The Rigveda - arguably one of oldest texts known - (some say composed around the same time as the Torah - around 5-6000 years ago) has this "hymn of creation" in its cosmology section
Chapter 10 - Part 129

I am quoting it directly into this post -

Would very much like to see what opinions and comments are on the viewpoint of ancient Rishi's (sages) that are thought to have composed this - both from theists as well as atheists

At least to me - it speaks of humility, a sense of curiosity and an honest conclusion that I daresay holds true even in the present time - from a metaphysical standpoint - emphasis mine

"There was neither non-existence nor existence then;
Neither the realm of space, nor the sky which is beyond;
What stirred? Where? In whose protection?

There was neither death nor immortality then;
No distinguishing sign of night nor of day;
That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse;
Other than that there was nothing beyond.

Darkness there was at first, by darkness hidden;
Without distinctive marks, this all was water;
That which, becoming, by the void was covered;
That One by force of heat came into being;

Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
Gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?

Whether God's will created it, or whether He was mute;
Perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not;
Only He who is its overseer in highest heaven knows,
Only He knows, or perhaps He does not know."

Link to the original

There have been commentaries on this from a range of individuals from theists, to scientists to atheists - so wondered what the netizens of RF had to say...

--M

 

[sun rise]

That to me is the attempt to express in words which by their nature express duality the non-dual reality. It's also done poetically.

From my understanding as well, Meher Baba described that original breathing as lahar (whim) from God in the "beyond beyond" out of which creation emerged. The overseer in highest heaven can be perhaps linked to Meher Baba's formulation of God in the beyond to which all realized jivanmukas (souls) eventually attain.

As a side note, there are elements in that description of waters etc that remind me of the Biblical book of Genesis. I would not be surprised if the two were related in the distant and forgotten past.

 

[danieldemol]

I appreciate the writers humility, but I would still turn to modern science for an understanding of the universe.

In my opinion.

 

[paarsurrey]

I have been a lurker and a mute witness to the to-and-fro discussions about creation from a religious as well as a non-religious perspective.

There are often comments made that "Gods and Religion are man-made"

Many of the religions postulate a creator - also elevated to the status of God -

There are not many - that proclaim that it is a mystery - IOW "We do not know....who did it? why it was done and in what manner"

The Rigveda - arguably one of oldest texts known - (some say composed around the same time as the Torah - around 5-6000 years ago) has this "hymn of creation" in its cosmology section
Chapter 10 - Part 129

I am quoting it directly into this post -

Would very much like to see what opinions and comments are on the viewpoint of ancient Rishi's (sages) that are thought to have composed this - both from theists as well as atheists

At least to me - it speaks of humility, a sense of curiosity and an honest conclusion that I daresay holds true even in the present time - from a metaphysical standpoint - emphasis mine

"There was neither non-existence nor existence then;
Neither the realm of space, nor the sky which is beyond;
What stirred? Where? In whose protection?

There was neither death nor immortality then;
No distinguishing sign of night nor of day;
That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse;
Other than that there was nothing beyond.

Darkness there was at first, by darkness hidden;
Without distinctive marks, this all was water;
That which, becoming, by the void was covered;
That One by force of heat came into being;

Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
Gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?

Whether God's will created it, or whether He was mute;
Perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not;
Only He who is its overseer in highest heaven knows,
Only He knows, or perhaps He does not know."

Link to the original

There have been commentaries on this from a range of individuals from theists, to scientists to atheists - so wondered what the netizens of RF had to say...

--M

What was the source of the sages/rishis who are said to have composed it, please?
Right?

Regards

 

[Kenny]

I have been a lurker and a mute witness to the to-and-fro discussions about creation from a religious as well as a non-religious perspective.

There are often comments made that "Gods and Religion are man-made"

Many of the religions postulate a creator - also elevated to the status of God -

There are not many - that proclaim that it is a mystery - IOW "We do not know....who did it? why it was done and in what manner"

The Rigveda - arguably one of oldest texts known - (some say composed around the same time as the Torah - around 5-6000 years ago) has this "hymn of creation" in its cosmology section
Chapter 10 - Part 129

I am quoting it directly into this post -

Would very much like to see what opinions and comments are on the viewpoint of ancient Rishi's (sages) that are thought to have composed this - both from theists as well as atheists

At least to me - it speaks of humility, a sense of curiosity and an honest conclusion that I daresay holds true even in the present time - from a metaphysical standpoint - emphasis mine

"There was neither non-existence nor existence then;
Neither the realm of space, nor the sky which is beyond;
What stirred? Where? In whose protection?

There was neither death nor immortality then;
No distinguishing sign of night nor of day;
That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse;
Other than that there was nothing beyond.

Darkness there was at first, by darkness hidden;
Without distinctive marks, this all was water;
That which, becoming, by the void was covered;
That One by force of heat came into being;

Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
Gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?

Whether God's will created it, or whether He was mute;
Perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not;
Only He who is its overseer in highest heaven knows,
Only He knows, or perhaps He does not know."

Link to the original

There have been commentaries on this from a range of individuals from theists, to scientists to atheists - so wondered what the netizens of RF had to say...

--M

I find that all have similarities because the proceed from an original moment, like the story of a flood in every religion (not trying to derail this into the flood story... just making reference that almost all religions have the story)

In Genesis God spoke light into the darkness...

 

[syo]

There was neither non-existence nor existence then;

When?

 

[RestlessSoul]

When?

Before there was then or when.

 

[syo]

Before there was then or when.

I see. Then it can't be described.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

The “hymn of creation” is very pleasant and rational.
I like it.

 

[David Weaver]

I have been a lurker and a mute witness to the to-and-fro discussions about creation from a religious as well as a non-religious perspective.

There are often comments made that "Gods and Religion are man-made"

Many of the religions postulate a creator - also elevated to the status of God -

There are not many - that proclaim that it is a mystery - IOW "We do not know....who did it? why it was done and in what manner"

The Rigveda - arguably one of oldest texts known - (some say composed around the same time as the Torah - around 5-6000 years ago) has this "hymn of creation" in its cosmology section
Chapter 10 - Part 129

I am quoting it directly into this post -

Would very much like to see what opinions and comments are on the viewpoint of ancient Rishi's (sages) that are thought to have composed this - both from theists as well as atheists

At least to me - it speaks of humility, a sense of curiosity and an honest conclusion that I daresay holds true even in the present time - from a metaphysical standpoint - emphasis mine

"There was neither non-existence nor existence then;
Neither the realm of space, nor the sky which is beyond;
What stirred? Where? In whose protection?

There was neither death nor immortality then;
No distinguishing sign of night nor of day;
That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse;
Other than that there was nothing beyond.

Darkness there was at first, by darkness hidden;
Without distinctive marks, this all was water;
That which, becoming, by the void was covered;
That One by force of heat came into being;

Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
Gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?

Whether God's will created it, or whether He was mute;
Perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not;
Only He who is its overseer in highest heaven knows,
Only He knows, or perhaps He does not know."

Link to the original

There have been commentaries on this from a range of individuals from theists, to scientists to atheists - so wondered what the netizens of RF had to say...

--M

This is a purely agnostic quote. All you're getting from the writer is that they don't know and possibilities of what could have been. It would be no different than someone asking me (because I'm a Christian) why God allows bad things to happen. Well the honest answer to that is I don't know...God has a plan and a reason, my lack of understanding doesn't change that