Orontes
Master of the Horse
What follows is from a post of mine from another forum. The post and thread are in the staff section of a forum-not-to-be named. I repost it given some have expressed an interest in the content.
The format follows St. Thomas' Summa Theologica
(While decisions are made and the effected are relegated to their new status, the merit of those decisions may still be weighed. "The-forum-not-to-be named" Staff, by that designation, indicates a certain loyalty to an idea. For some, that may be the old notion of "uniting all Christians as one" over exclusion and sectarianism.)
Objection One: "The-forum-not-to-be named"is a private site. The owner of the site is free to allow or disallow any views he feels so inclined to. The owner's feelings in this regard are absolute. Therefore, the censorship of views that run contra those personal tastes is natural. Those who disagree may leave as participation is not required.
Objection Two: No site can be all things to all people. "The-forum-not-to-be named" appeals to the Nicene Creed as its base standard. The Nicene Creed dates from the 4th Century. It is the First Ecumenical Council. The Creed has a resonance in Christian Theological history that makes it a simple baseline standard for defining an orthodoxy and protecting against heresy.
On the Contrary: It is written: (Acts 5:34-40) "Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. And to him they agreed..."
I Answer That: A trust that the true can be made manifest has been fundamental to Christian life through its history. Bigotry and hatred for the deemed other also has an unfortunate place in Christian history. For those who have a passion for their faith, it is all too easy to confuse that passion as license to distain differing views. It is also easy to become blind to the full consequence of that distain. When the echo chamber becomes the model for decision making, the periphery can quickly be relegated and forgotten. The erasure of non-Nicene Christian Congregations and the reduction of non-Nicene Christians to second class status is illustrative. Such action under the "the-forum-not-to-be named" name has at least the following rhetorical consequences. First, the meaning of the "Christian" of "the-forum-not-to-be named" is called into question as the site appears only tolerant of what is liked/favored by those in power (which of course isn't to be tolerant at all). Second, the base confidence that the truth can/will prevail is undercut as genuine open exchange is stymied and replaced with ad hoc standards contra deemed challenges. Such is to the detriment of "the-forum-not-to-be named".
Reply to Objection One: The ability to do a thing and the justification for doing that thing, are not the same. Insofar as "the-forum-not-to-be named" purports to be "Christian" site: it applies a name that is general and ecumenical, covering the entirety of a religion, not simply a sectarian view or personal penchant. As noted in the site's explanatory FAQ updated 12/2/07:
Reply to Objection Two: Christianity did not begin in the Fourth Century. Christianity precedes the actions of Roman Emperors in summoning councils and the product of the same by several centuries. The Nicene standard therefore confuses a part for the whole which is logically problematic. Further, any attempt regarding orthodox vs. heretical begs the question. What is orthodox for an member of the Greek Eastern Orthodox Church is not the same as for a Presbyterian. What is orthodox for a Roman Catholic is not the same as for a Quaker. What is orthodox for a Pentecostal is not the same as for a Copt. Claims of orthodoxy and charges of heresy are sect specific and thus are not relevant to the general Christian question or a Christian ecumenical site. Finally, the Nicene appeal is incoherent. The Nicene Creed standard that is erected is not the Nicene Creed, but an asterisk ridden statement that undercuts the very notion of any appeal to antiquity or doctrinal constancy. For example, one cannot claim to recognize "one baptism for the remission of sins" and then apply a qualifying asterisk that baptism may be understood as neither necessary nor regenerating, without admitting to an absurdity. One cannot claim fealty to the "Nicene Creed" as the Congregational standard and then allow Congregations that identify as "No Creed but Christ" without admitting to an absurdity. The same incoherence is found in the Non-Promotion standards. One cannot claim "Blatant and explicit promotion of Nestorianism will be censored" but then "Denial of Mary as the mother of God, in and of itself, will not be considered a contradiction of the Creed." without again falling into absurdity. The ad hoc quality, exceptions given and incoherence of the asterisk ridden creed (and non-promotion standard) can only lead the impartial observer to the impression all is simply a ruse to cover a religious bigotry of some toward others. This impression is unfortunate and again undercuts any moral appeal in the Christian name.
Would that love and inclusion were the standard rather than artificial criteria that speaks of agendas.
The format follows St. Thomas' Summa Theologica
(While decisions are made and the effected are relegated to their new status, the merit of those decisions may still be weighed. "The-forum-not-to-be named" Staff, by that designation, indicates a certain loyalty to an idea. For some, that may be the old notion of "uniting all Christians as one" over exclusion and sectarianism.)
Objection One: "The-forum-not-to-be named"is a private site. The owner of the site is free to allow or disallow any views he feels so inclined to. The owner's feelings in this regard are absolute. Therefore, the censorship of views that run contra those personal tastes is natural. Those who disagree may leave as participation is not required.
Objection Two: No site can be all things to all people. "The-forum-not-to-be named" appeals to the Nicene Creed as its base standard. The Nicene Creed dates from the 4th Century. It is the First Ecumenical Council. The Creed has a resonance in Christian Theological history that makes it a simple baseline standard for defining an orthodoxy and protecting against heresy.
On the Contrary: It is written: (Acts 5:34-40) "Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. And to him they agreed..."
I Answer That: A trust that the true can be made manifest has been fundamental to Christian life through its history. Bigotry and hatred for the deemed other also has an unfortunate place in Christian history. For those who have a passion for their faith, it is all too easy to confuse that passion as license to distain differing views. It is also easy to become blind to the full consequence of that distain. When the echo chamber becomes the model for decision making, the periphery can quickly be relegated and forgotten. The erasure of non-Nicene Christian Congregations and the reduction of non-Nicene Christians to second class status is illustrative. Such action under the "the-forum-not-to-be named" name has at least the following rhetorical consequences. First, the meaning of the "Christian" of "the-forum-not-to-be named" is called into question as the site appears only tolerant of what is liked/favored by those in power (which of course isn't to be tolerant at all). Second, the base confidence that the truth can/will prevail is undercut as genuine open exchange is stymied and replaced with ad hoc standards contra deemed challenges. Such is to the detriment of "the-forum-not-to-be named".
Reply to Objection One: The ability to do a thing and the justification for doing that thing, are not the same. Insofar as "the-forum-not-to-be named" purports to be "Christian" site: it applies a name that is general and ecumenical, covering the entirety of a religion, not simply a sectarian view or personal penchant. As noted in the site's explanatory FAQ updated 12/2/07:
"Vision:
An online forums-based social community guided by Christian principles for everyone.
An online forums-based social community guided by Christian principles for everyone.
Mission:
The apartheid of non-Nicene Christians finds no place in the site's name, vision or mission. Moreover, insofar as Christianity entails a moral element and "the-forum-not-to-be named" seeks to appeal to that ethic, the segregation and censorship of some Christian sects, whether by private whimsy or loyalty to another sect, undercuts any moral appeal the site may attempt or hope for. 1. To establish and grow a Christian community that is open to everyone (of all faiths, beliefs, and nations) guided by rules driven by Christian principles which keep in mind:
Gal 5:22-23 GNT But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility, and self-control. There is no law against such things as these.
2. To provide a meeting place for Christians to fellowship with one another and outreach to non-Christians, keeping in mind:
2 Cor 5:17-18 GNT Anyone who is joined to Christ is a new being; the old is gone, the new has come. All this is done by God, who through Christ changed us from enemies into his friends and gave us the task of making others his friends also.
We hope you enjoy using Christian Forums as much as we do. If you ever need help using the site, please contact a Staff member by sending a private message.
"
Gal 5:22-23 GNT But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility, and self-control. There is no law against such things as these.
2. To provide a meeting place for Christians to fellowship with one another and outreach to non-Christians, keeping in mind:
2 Cor 5:17-18 GNT Anyone who is joined to Christ is a new being; the old is gone, the new has come. All this is done by God, who through Christ changed us from enemies into his friends and gave us the task of making others his friends also.
We hope you enjoy using Christian Forums as much as we do. If you ever need help using the site, please contact a Staff member by sending a private message.
" Reply to Objection Two: Christianity did not begin in the Fourth Century. Christianity precedes the actions of Roman Emperors in summoning councils and the product of the same by several centuries. The Nicene standard therefore confuses a part for the whole which is logically problematic. Further, any attempt regarding orthodox vs. heretical begs the question. What is orthodox for an member of the Greek Eastern Orthodox Church is not the same as for a Presbyterian. What is orthodox for a Roman Catholic is not the same as for a Quaker. What is orthodox for a Pentecostal is not the same as for a Copt. Claims of orthodoxy and charges of heresy are sect specific and thus are not relevant to the general Christian question or a Christian ecumenical site. Finally, the Nicene appeal is incoherent. The Nicene Creed standard that is erected is not the Nicene Creed, but an asterisk ridden statement that undercuts the very notion of any appeal to antiquity or doctrinal constancy. For example, one cannot claim to recognize "one baptism for the remission of sins" and then apply a qualifying asterisk that baptism may be understood as neither necessary nor regenerating, without admitting to an absurdity. One cannot claim fealty to the "Nicene Creed" as the Congregational standard and then allow Congregations that identify as "No Creed but Christ" without admitting to an absurdity. The same incoherence is found in the Non-Promotion standards. One cannot claim "Blatant and explicit promotion of Nestorianism will be censored" but then "Denial of Mary as the mother of God, in and of itself, will not be considered a contradiction of the Creed." without again falling into absurdity. The ad hoc quality, exceptions given and incoherence of the asterisk ridden creed (and non-promotion standard) can only lead the impartial observer to the impression all is simply a ruse to cover a religious bigotry of some toward others. This impression is unfortunate and again undercuts any moral appeal in the Christian name.
Would that love and inclusion were the standard rather than artificial criteria that speaks of agendas.
