~A question of christians and the holocaust~

[wmam]

This is not meant to offend or hurt anyone but is rather a question for curiosity.

Do christians believe that their god has control over all things? If so this would also mean the leaders and dignitaries of not just their own country but those of other nations as well, correct? So if this is true then would a christian have to accept the fact that their god had control over those that, has been claimed, killed over 30,000,000 peoples between Germany and Russia alone from 1912 to 1958? Wouldn’t they also have to accept that all of this was sanctioned by their god? How does a christian explain this.

 

[Beaudreaux]

I am not a Christian, but I have posed a similar question to Christians on RF and the response I most often get is that God will not violate our free will. He will not control people and force them to make good decisions.

 

[wmam]

I am not a Christian, but I have posed a similar question to Christians on RF and the response I most often get is that God will not violate our free will. He will not control people and force them to make good decisions.

But then one cannot say that their god has control.

 

[linwood]

But then one cannot say that their god has control.

The answer is that he has control but will not use it to alter the consequences of human free will.

 

[Beaudreaux]

But then one cannot say that their god has control.

Right. The argument typically states that asking God to control people who have truly free will is like asking God to make a square circle. It is a logical contradiction and even an omnipotent God cannot break the rules of logic.

 

[wmam]

The answer is that he has control but will not use it to alter the consequences of human free will.

Are you a christian or are you answering for a christian or have you been told this by a christain?

 

[wmam]

Right. The argument typically states that asking God to control people who have truly free will is like asking God to make a square circle. It is a logical contradiction and even an omnipotent God cannot break the rules of logic.

Then we would have to say that these verses are wrong............

Rom 13:1 Let everybody be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from Elohim, and those who exist are ordained by Elohim.
Rom 13:2 Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of Elohim; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment.

 

[Riverwolf]

Then we would have to say that these verses are wrong............

Rom 13:1 Let everybody be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from Elohim, and those who exist are ordained by Elohim.
Rom 13:2 Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of Elohim; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment.

After they die, not in this life.

The idea is that God CAN do these things. But just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you WILL.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Why not ask us if God can make a rock so big he cannot lift it?

 

[fantome profane]

Just wondering if there is any reason this question is directed only towards Christians. It seems to me the question applies to anyone who believes in a “God” who is in control, Christian, Jew, Muslim or Other.

It reminds me of this BBC special – God on Trial (there are 9 parts, I have linked to the first one because I am lazy tonight)

 

[wmam]

After they die, not in this life.

The idea is that God CAN do these things. But just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you WILL.

Where is this written?

 

[wmam]

Why not ask us if God can make a rock so big he cannot lift it?

That might be the next thread I start but this one is here already so why not answer this one?

 

[wmam]

Just wondering if there is any reason this question is directed only towards Christians. It seems to me the question applies to anyone who believes in a “God” who is in control, Christian, Jew, Muslim or Other.

It reminds me of this BBC special – God on Trial (there are 9 parts, I have linked to the first one because I am lazy tonight)

Maybe you would do well by starting a thread for just that purpose. This one is for christians to answer. I would respectfully ask that all others keep it to themselves.

 

[wmam]

If this thread is in the wrong place can a staff member please move it to the right one.

 

[Riverwolf]

Where is this written?

Which one? Judgment after death, or the unwillingness to do what can be done? 'Cause as far as I know, neither of them are in the Bible in relationship to God, but that judgment occurs after death is implied.

But the idea that just because you can do something doesn't mean you will is not Biblical at all, but it doesn't have to be in order to be true.

 

[jacobweymouth]

As I quoted in another thread, "God hath ordained all things for Himself, even the wicked for the day of evil"

Another verse that deals with this is Isaiah 45:7 -I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

He allows -or does it it- for a reason. I don't understand. The book of Job deals with this subject rather thoroughly, though:

Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it. -Job 40:2

You might read all of chapter 40 and 41.

 

[Katzpur]

This is not meant to offend or hurt anyone but is rather a question for curiosity.

Do christians believe that their god has control over all things? If so this would also mean the leaders and dignitaries of not just their own country but those of other nations as well, correct? So if this is true then would a christian have to accept the fact that their god had control over those that, has been claimed, killed over 30,000,000 peoples between Germany and Russia alone from 1912 to 1958? Wouldn’t they also have to accept that all of this was sanctioned by their god? How does a christian explain this.

God has given us "free agency" (i.e. free will). He tells us how we should live, how we should treat others, and how we should communicate with Him. He does not force us to obey, though. He definitely didn't sanction the atrocities communited by Hitler's regime. I can't imagine how you arrived at that conclusion about the Christian God.

 

[McBell]

Why not ask us if God can make a rock so big he cannot lift it?

Well, Can he?

 

[wmam]

Which one? Judgment after death, or the unwillingness to do what can be done? 'Cause as far as I know, neither of them are in the Bible in relationship to God, but that judgment occurs after death is implied.

But the idea that just because you can do something doesn't mean you will is not Biblical at all, but it doesn't have to be in order to be true.

Are you a christian? I ask this of christians only. This question has no place for answers outside of scripture as far as I am concerned.

People obtaining judgment after death hasn't a thing to do with my question. What the powers that were established by Elohim do is. If your not a christian trying to honestly answer this question through scripture please take it somewhere else.

 

[wmam]

As I quoted in another thread, "God hath ordained all things for Himself, even the wicked for the day of evil"

Another verse that deals with this is Isaiah 45:7 -I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

He allows -or does it it- for a reason. I don't understand. The book of Job deals with this subject rather thoroughly, though:

Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it. -Job 40:2

You might read all of chapter 40 and 41.

Finally. Thank you so very, very much for the honesty and forthright knowledge of scripture to give a consise and educated answer. I was beginning to wonder if there were any here with the passion of truth. So far you win in my book of answers. Again thank you.