a question i have about christian beliefs

[SoyLeche]

i think you have missed the point i was making, you are right to make the point that it doesnt matter what Jesus was doing they would not have believed any way. but the contrast here was that Jesus was drinking intoxicating wine, not just grape juice that John the baptist drank. so as you mentioned , some people will not eccept the will of God at all.

Where does it say that John dranke grape juice again??? The only things that I remember about John's diet are the locusts and wild honey. I think you are adding some stuff here.

Not that it really matters though. For that matter, I am perfectly fine with the idea that Jesus drank fermented wine - I just don't believe that he wants me to, and that's good enough for me.

 

[may]

Where does it say that John dranke grape juice again??? The only things that I remember about John's diet are the locusts and wild honey. I think you are adding some stuff here.

Not that it really matters though. For that matter, I am perfectly fine with the idea that Jesus drank fermented wine - I just don't believe that he wants me to, and that's good enough for me.

for he will be great before Jehovah. But he must drink no wine and strong drink at all, and he will be filled with holy spirit right from his mother’s womb; 16 and many of the sons of Israel will he turn back to Jehovah their God. 17 Also, he will go before him with E·li´jah’s spirit and power, to turn back the hearts of fathers to children and the disobedient ones to the practical wisdom of righteous ones, to get ready for Jehovah a prepared people..................luke 1;15-16 this is talking about John the baptist he did not drink wine or strong drink .......... but Jesus did .

 

[SoyLeche]

for he will be great before Jehovah. But he must drink no wine and strong drink at all, and he will be filled with holy spirit right from his mother’s womb; 16 and many of the sons of Israel will he turn back to Jehovah their God. 17 Also, he will go before him with E·li´jah’s spirit and power, to turn back the hearts of fathers to children and the disobedient ones to the practical wisdom of righteous ones, to get ready for Jehovah a prepared people..................luke 1;15-16 this is talking about John the baptist he did not drink wine or strong drink .......... but Jesus did .

I can accept that. You said that John drank grape juice though. Where does it say that?

 

[Katzpur]

Thanks for the link

Yet it contredicts the Bible and what Jesus did, (no disrespect) are do Latter Day Saints believe that the Book Of Mormon is more erm... powerful and outdoes the Bible? Yet i'l look into it more, thanks very much.

x x x

We don't believe that the Book of Mormon is "more powerful" than the Bible or that it "outdoes the Bible," Groovy. We believe that God is the source of both books. we believe that both the Bible and the Book of Mormon contain the word of God as given to His chosen prophets and apostles. It's just that by the time the Bible came into existence, the original manuscripts had long since been lost, and all that was available to translators and transcribers were copies of copies of copies of copies. Who knows how many errors had crept in over time, and how much information was missing entirely by the time the canon was closed. The Book of Mormon, on the other hand, underwent a single translation from the original to the first published English version.

More to the point, the scripture SoyLeche quoted didn't even come from the Book of Mormon. It came from the Doctrine and Covenants, which is a record of God's revelation to latter-day prophets. Statistically, practicing Latter-day Saints have a considerably longer life expectancy than does the average American citizen. This has been attributed directly to our health code.

 

[may]

I can accept that. You said that John drank grape juice though. Where does it say that?

the point i was making was that John didnt drink intoxicating drink. maybe he only drank water who knows , but he would not have taken in fermented wine ,but he would have to drink something to stay alive

 

[may]

It's just that by the time the Bible came into existence, the original manuscripts had long since been lost, and all that was available to translators and transcribers were copies of copies of copies of copies. Who knows how many errors had crept in over time, and how much information was missing entirely by the time the canon was closed.

quote] do you not think that the Almighty can make sure that the word of God the bible endures for ever , mistakes did creep in over time as you mentioned , and he did allow this to happen ,but the thing is Jehovah can make sure that in his own time newer translations can correct the matter ,and get the translation back to the original thoughts of God ........... and i beleive he has done this with the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION nothing is impossible with God , we dont need other books ,the bible is a book of prophecy and the prophecies in the bible are undergoing fullfillment right now. its all in the bible , that is all we need

 

[SoyLeche]

do you not think that the Almighty can make sure that the word of God the bible endures for ever , mistakes did creep in over time as you mentioned , and he did allow this to happen ,but the thing is Jehovah can make sure that in his own time newer translations can correct the matter ,and get the translation back to the original thoughts of God ........... and i beleive he has done this with the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION nothing is impossible with God , we dont need other books ,the bible is a book of prophecy and the prophecies in the bible are undergoing fullfillment right now. its all in the bible , that is all we need

I agree with everything you said except the part about the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION. I do not accept it as valid.

Of course God could have made it so that the Bible survived untouched. That doesn't mean that He did though

Also - if the Bible is all that we need, why doesn't it say so??? (sorry, you don't have to answer that here - don't want to hijack the thread)

 

[Booko]

******** MOD POST *********

Friends, this is a DISCUSS area, and y'all are debating. (Not to mention, you're all horribly off the original topic...)

If you want to debate whether it's okay for Christians to consume alcohol, please start a thread on it in the appropriate forum.

 

[may]

******** MOD POST *********

Friends, this is a DISCUSS area, and y'all are debating. (Not to mention, you're all horribly off the original topic...)

If you want to debate whether it's okay for Christians to consume alcohol, please start a thread on it in the appropriate forum.

sorry

 

[star of the sea]

Do you honestly believe that in all of this almighty universe that we are the only people here, that christianity has the ansers for everything? Do you believe the christians were right to slaughter people who worshipped our beautiful planet off as witches, heretics etc. Do you believe that heaven and hell is seperate from us We create our own heaven and hell here on earth in our minds. The divine laws of old are "harm none and do what you will" and also "as above so below" look at the stars at night, the moon, the sun, see that we revolve around the moon and the sun, then look at scientifically proven facts that there are thousands of suns in our galaxies.
Then look at a book that will tell you of how christianity came to be and look at your perception of Jesus. The word he preached was love one another yet in order to become one of the world's most powerful religions, they killed millions! If Jesus was here today, what do you think he would say about the vatican? Jesus was a pagan himself, he preached we could all do as he did and more. We all have the ability to heal, prophesise etc, yet the christian church bans any sort of divination. Go and find your answers, educate yourself of the bigger picture and you will see that christianity has caused mass suffering and yet still believes they are the chosen ones!
You are divine, the divine is you, as above so below, but don't take my word for it, meditate, ask the universe for the answers and you will get them.
and btw I was brought up strict catholic, made my communion at 4 yrs old, and spent most of my childhood talking with priests, nuns etc. Yet I never felt satisfied with the answers. I am now a pagan and never been happier and clearer about my path in life, my beliefs and the answers come to me daily.
love and light

 

[Zhakir]

Welcome.

The LDS (Mormon) Church has some interesting answers for you.

I'll give you the (very) condensed version for now. Any other LDS posters, feel free to elaborate.

Everyone will be given the opportunity to accept or reject Christ, either in this world or the next. God has made it possible for all of His children to return to him if they so desire.

Well...it's easy to talk without qouting verses to support that isn't it?!

 

[Zhakir]

not all of us believe this way

there are bible versus that support the idea that followers of different religions will still recieve the kingdom of God

Good please i would like to read them what are they?

 

[Katzpur]

Well...it's easy to talk without qouting verses to support that isn't it?!

Excuse me? Just what would you know about LDS scripture?

 

[Zhakir]

LDS scripture also "include" NT and OT

 

[Zhakir]

LDS scripture also "include" NT and OT,

Good please i would like to read them what are they?

Mike 182?...

 

[ayani]

i certainly don't believe that all non-Christians are automatically condemned to hell.

i believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to come into a relationship with God in this life, be born again and saved, and assured of one's place in heaven.

yet to say that all non-Christians are lost, because of something they never heard or had the chance to accept, is wrong.

look at Matthew 25 :

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on His left.

notice how it is written "all the nations". this must surely include non-Christians.

and look at what the criteria for judgment is :

Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed by My Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited Me in, I needed clothes and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you came to visit Me.'

"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? When did we see You a stranger and invite You in, or needing clothes and clothe You? When did we see You sick or in prison and go to visit You?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for Me.'

"Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite Me in, I needed clothes and You did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and You did not look after Me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help You?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, You did not do for me.'

i believe we are saved by faith and grace- faith in God's Son, and God's grace in response to our faith. we are also called to be committed Christ-followers, and not simply talk about Him, but obey Him, and love and serve as He's commanded us. if not, we should remember the parable of the Good Samaritan. a heretic and an outcast did the will of God where a priest and a Levite failed.

i know this is something i have to work on, too.

 

[Enoch07]

According to what I understand. Those who never got to hear Jesus' message during life will have the chance to learn it in the after life before they are judged. Then they can chose to accept Him or not, and based on that plus how they lived their life then they are judged. This is not a second chance though as many would have you think, because if they never got the chance in life to hear Jesus' message they never got the first chance.

 

[[email protected]]

Enoch07 has it exactly right. Only those who accept Jesus Christ receive eternal life in the kingdom of God, but everyone will have the chance to do this, even those who never heard of Jesus Christ in this life. There will be a resurrection to judgement when everyone who never had a chance to know and accept the truth will be resurrected back to physical life and will learn about the truth and have the opportunity to make the choice to believe and repent or not. There are a number of scripture to support this.

Look at the passage in Ezekiel 37:1-14. Ancient Israel never had the opportunity to learn about and accept Jesus Christ, but God says He will resurrect them back to physical life. We know they are resurrected back to physical life, not immortality, because they are made of flesh and need the breath of air to live. Then God says He will put His Spirit in them, showing they have the opportunity to become converted.

A few months ago I had a rather long debate with a couple of people in my blog about this very subject, and you can find a more detailed explanation with more scriptures there. The first post on this subject is at Preaching the Gospel: A Stumbling Block - The Fate of the Billions Who Never Heard of Christ, and the thread continues into November. You can also see what those say who disagree.