A question from a new jw

[Hockeycowboy]

The facts are what they are. There's no way to "interpret" them to support a magical third party pulling the strings.

Certainly, there is! Science, by its very definition, doesn’t even consider it, that there’s an intelligent Mind as the Cause.

But Newton did. So did the father of the scientific method, Bacon.

Even Einstein. He stated: “My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals **Himself** in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a **superior reasoning power**, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."
Excerpt from (Barnett, L.,) "The Universe and Dr. Einstein", Victor Gallancz Ltd, London, UK, p. 95, 1953.
(Capitalization of 'Himself' and 'God' were in the book.
Double asterisks are mine, to highlight.)

 

[Valjean]

Oh please....germ theory has been proven. What is theoretical about it?
The discovery of the germ theory of disease

And you are going to tell me that there is no way to prove that the earth orbits the sun....seriously? What century do you live in?

How you can put evolution in the same category as those, is beyond me.

You really don't understand science or evidence. Yes, the evidence is robust enough that doubting it would be obtuse in the extreme, but do you realize the ToE has more consilient supporting evidence than either of these theories?

When you have to say "might have" or "could have"....you have no facts, just assertions....and you need faith to believe in those too, you know. Popular opinion never made something right. Amassing suggestions is what theoretical science does.....those are not facts. People will believe what they want to believe.....

Apparently you don't understand what a fact is, either. Science gathers facts.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

do you realize the ToE has more consilient supporting evidence than either of these theories?

Not for Common Descent, there isn’t. That’s based on deduction, and little else.

You really can’t use genetic similarities as supportive evidence either. Otherwise, we’re more closely related to some plants, than some animals.

And the Tree of Life? It’s a messed-up, tangled bush.

 

[viole]

As a jw.How much should I trust science?

If you want to keep believing what you believe, you should not trust it all.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Vee]

As a jw.How much should I trust science?

You can be a lot of things, but you're not a Jehovah's Witness.

 

[exchemist]

As a jw.How much should I trust science?

About 95%.

 

[Frank Goad]

You can be a lot of things, but you're not a Jehovah's Witness.

How can I become one?

 

[Vee]

How can I become one?

You can start by studying the bible with a JW, not online, a real person. If you don't know where to find someone in your area, there's a contact form you can fill in our website jw.org.

 

[Subduction Zone]

.......interpreted to fit a materialist pov.

Oh please....germ theory has been proven. What is theoretical about it?
The discovery of the germ theory of disease

And you are going to tell me that there is no way to prove that the earth orbits the sun....seriously? What century do you live in?

How you can put evolution in the same category as those, is beyond me.

When you have to say "might have" or "could have"....you have no facts, just assertions....and you need faith to believe in those too, you know. Popular opinion never made something right. Amassing suggestions is what theoretical science does.....those are not facts. People will believe what they want to believe.....

Then by your standards the theory of evolution is "proven". You are trying to use your ignorance of scientific phrasing as a weapon. But all that does is to make you look ignorant. Any article on germ theory will have the same sort of language. In that case you do not take any offense. To be able to have a valid point you need to be consistent.

 

[blü 2]

As a jw.How much should I trust science?

It might be wise not to expect the JWs (or any of their Christian relatives) to preach things, however well regarded by science, against their religious interests.

The thing about science is its basis in examinable evidence, repeatable experiment, open and transparent debate and constant self-correction ─ a combination that may not necessarily remind you of religion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

As a jw.How much should I trust science?

Science I believe is a gift from God to man but needs to be used for the benefit of humanity not our destruction. I believe it needs a moral compass but also that religion needs science to sort out reality from superstition.

Science is the first emanation from God toward man. All created things embody the potentiality of material perfection, but the power of intellectual investigation and scientific acquisition is a higher virtue specialized to man alone. Other beings and organisms are deprived of this potentiality and attainment.” (Abdu’l-Baha)

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

How can I become one?

You have to craft a formal request to the Office of The One True God in the form of a 5 page essay discussing your qualifications and level of overt goodness. You then get a petition signed by at least 100 people vouching for you as a "real stand-up guy". You roll all that up and seal it in wax with your thumb after it has been pricked and has a drop of blood on it, then mail it in. The address is P.O. box 8128, The Central All, CA 90210 (note: this is just a stand-in, and the real address is somewhere in the ether) - just remember that double postage is required, regardless the weight/size, etc. It costs the extra stamp for the USPS to deliver beyond the firmament.

 

[PruePhillip]

As a jw.How much should I trust science?

Frank is it?
The issue isn't how much you should trust in science because essentially
science and religion live in separate realms.
What YOU should be concerned about is the JW org doesn't trust in its
own former teachings. If you go back to Russel and Rutherford, and even
earlier Watchtower magazines you will see doctrines that have changed
out of recognition. I meet with JW's who don't believe in the 1975 end of
the world, or former ideas on shunning, blood transfusions and alternate
military service. And remember the 1914 doctrine?

 

[BilliardsBall]

As a jw.How much should I trust science?

Trust science and logic--but to be frank--I hope to come out from under JW's poor Bible doctrines. Ask Jesus, sincerely, IMHO, if JW doctrine is truth or no.

 

[ChristineM]

As a jw.How much should I trust science?

You trusted science enough to post the OP

 

[Dan From Smithville]

As a jw.How much should I trust science?

It appears that a JW should only accept science and observable facts that do not contradict the JW version of biblical interpretation and adheres to the letter of church doctrine. Even if neither of those have any basis in reason, logic or evidence. In other words, follow the standard creationist position.

Apparently, all unverified conspiracy theories (all of them are or they would be conspiracy fact) as well as those that have been debunked, and no matter how ridiculous, should be treated as true. I would imagine as long as those theories do not contradict JW doctrine.

If you get all your science from the church and avoid actual scientific sources, you should be fine.

 

[joelr]

Trust science and logic--but to be frank--I hope to come out from under JW's poor Bible doctrines. Ask Jesus, sincerely, IMHO, if JW doctrine is truth or no.

If one is JW they can confirmation bias around anything to continue their beliefs, as can any religious person:

"Matt: I speak with him regularly. I am aware of his presence.... though I admit, I sometimes ignore it. I know the intimacy of communion with Him.... of speaking His name to Him, of praising the Lamb and saying Holy Holy Holy to him. You cannot do that. You cannot pray to Him and talk to Him. I can. You cannot come to Him and ask Him anything. I can...and I do. I have no one telling me to do it or not. I hear Him call me in my heart into His presence. Do you have that with Him?
Ted: The Father is the one who gives all gifts. He is the one we need to ask.
Matt: Jesus said "Come to me" (Matt. 11:27-28). Have you done that?
Ted: Yup, he lead me the the Father (John 14:6) .
Matt: Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18). He forgives sin. Have you gone to Him and asked him to forgive you. The Father will honor us if we serve Jesus - John 12:26. The Father tells us to listen to Jesus - Luke 9:35; Matt. 17:5. The Father tells us to come to Jesus - John 6:45. The Father draws us to Jesus - John 6:44. If you have the Father, then you will come to Jesus, listen to Jesus, be drawn to Jesus, serve Jesus, etc. Is that what you do?
Ted: Once one is drawn to the Father through Jesus then he prays to the Father in Jesus' name. That is what Jesus taught us to do. And that is what I do.
Matt: And how do you have a relationship with someone you never talk to?
Ted: Because he is used by the Father to guide me with the holy spirit. So when I pray to the Father for assistance and I feel the holy spirit it is Jesus who is operating the spirit.
Matt: But, how do you have a relationship with someone you never talk to?
Ted: I understand that you feel you talk to Jesus and he answers you. But most Trinitarians do not hear Jesus literally. . "

Discussion with a Jehovah's Witness about a relationship with Jesus | CARM.org

 

[BilliardsBall]

If one is JW they can confirmation bias around anything to continue their beliefs, as can any religious person:

"Matt: I speak with him regularly. I am aware of his presence.... though I admit, I sometimes ignore it. I know the intimacy of communion with Him.... of speaking His name to Him, of praising the Lamb and saying Holy Holy Holy to him. You cannot do that. You cannot pray to Him and talk to Him. I can. You cannot come to Him and ask Him anything. I can...and I do. I have no one telling me to do it or not. I hear Him call me in my heart into His presence. Do you have that with Him?
Ted: The Father is the one who gives all gifts. He is the one we need to ask.
Matt: Jesus said "Come to me" (Matt. 11:27-28). Have you done that?
Ted: Yup, he lead me the the Father (John 14:6) .
Matt: Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18). He forgives sin. Have you gone to Him and asked him to forgive you. The Father will honor us if we serve Jesus - John 12:26. The Father tells us to listen to Jesus - Luke 9:35; Matt. 17:5. The Father tells us to come to Jesus - John 6:45. The Father draws us to Jesus - John 6:44. If you have the Father, then you will come to Jesus, listen to Jesus, be drawn to Jesus, serve Jesus, etc. Is that what you do?
Ted: Once one is drawn to the Father through Jesus then he prays to the Father in Jesus' name. That is what Jesus taught us to do. And that is what I do.
Matt: And how do you have a relationship with someone you never talk to?
Ted: Because he is used by the Father to guide me with the holy spirit. So when I pray to the Father for assistance and I feel the holy spirit it is Jesus who is operating the spirit.
Matt: But, how do you have a relationship with someone you never talk to?
Ted: I understand that you feel you talk to Jesus and he answers you. But most Trinitarians do not hear Jesus literally. . "

Discussion with a Jehovah's Witness about a relationship with Jesus | CARM.org

Yet a born again person cannot be deceived by certain things, as they have the Spirit of God.

 

[joelr]

Yet a born again person cannot be deceived by certain things, as they have the Spirit of God.

"Born again", clear signs of a mystery religion.
All of the earlier mystery cults had baptism as a sharing of the saviors ordeal and referred to members as being born again (osirus cult) as a symbolic death and resurrection when initiated.
The things that are distinctly different from Jewish and Christian water rituals are that Christian rituals are exactly the same as all mystery religion rituals.

explained here at 31:39

 

[BilliardsBall]

"Born again", clear signs of a mystery religion.
All of the earlier mystery cults had baptism as a sharing of the saviors ordeal and referred to members as being born again (osirus cult) as a symbolic death and resurrection when initiated.
The things that are distinctly different from Jewish and Christian water rituals are that Christian rituals are exactly the same as all mystery religion rituals.

explained here at 31:39

Luckily, there are many distinctives in biblical Christianity, including Paul revealing 8 of 9 NT mysteries, showing it's not a mystery religion!