1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured A Question for Theists

Discussion in 'Theism' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Feb 27, 2020.

  1. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,454
    Ratings:
    +140
    Freewill means you can go as humans wish under the influence of the much more intelligent fallen angels (repeated story of Eden). God has to regulate especially when human salvation is endangered. Or rather, it goes as planned and at different stages there will be different actions. A project is not just about a plan, it's also about an action.
     
  2. Etritonakin

    Etritonakin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,203
    Ratings:
    +359
    It depends on which goal.

    If God wrote DNA-based evolution, for example, by creating the elements and that which transpired to bring them together as DNA, then it is a design program that doesn't NEED tweaking to produce many varieties of life forms -potentially throughout the universe (though it CAN be tweaked at any point).

    If God's goal is to reproduce -to make the children of God, then it's a matter of a great deal of parenting.
    Inevitability ends where true independent decision begins -and new independently-creative beings make some very stupid independent decisions -until they learn.

    According to the bible, we are presently limited to Earth -but will eventually be given access to the entire creation.
    It says the meek inherit the Earth (initially), but also that the entire creation will be liberated from its bondage to decay by the children of God.
    So -the tweaking of the universe will be ours to do.
    As for tweaking things on Earth -it is to bring us to the point of being responsible and capable of tweaking the universe without the necessity of micromanagement or concern that we will do the same everywhere as we did to Earth.

    After we nearly destroy ourselves and the Earth, God will intervene and set up his government on Earth -with many made immortal reigning as kings and priests under Christ.
    It is written that the present works on the Earth will be destroyed -the nature of even animals will be "tweaked" so they do not consume each other -and the topography of the Earth will be drastically changed to allow for better living conditions and access to better natural resources. Humans will continue to reproduce and eventually be made immortal.
    "of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end".
    Then it's out into the universe!

    Isa 45:18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

    Heb 11:3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    (or -things which are seen ARE made of things which do NOT appear)

    (creature=creation)
    Rom 8:18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

    Phil 3:21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    2 Pet 3:10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    Isa 60:17Instead of bronze I will bring you gold; I will bring silver in place of iron, bronze instead of wood, and iron instead of stones. I will appoint peace as your governor and righteousness as your ruler.

    Isa 11:6The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
    7And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
    8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
    9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

    Isa 13:11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
    12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
    13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
     
  3. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,433
    Ratings:
    +1,777
    Religion:
    Judaism
    God's greatest goal seems to be (from the evidence) the evolution of a morally sentient species with which he can have a relationship. His goal is, since he loves us, to help us reach the point of being all we can be and doing wall we are called to do, AND to be loved by us in return.

    IOW, God wants children, not robots. This necessitates a policy that allows for us to choose our behavior as free agents. A Father may set limits and dole out punishment if he is disobeyed, but the goal of a Father is a morally mature adult who will do the right thing of their own volition. Thus, discipline is merely meant to guide, not determine. God is a teacher and parent. We are not computer programs.
     
  4. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    3,307
    Ratings:
    +863
    Religion:
    pagan, nonchristian, nonplatonist
    You mention goals. What goals? :)
     
  5. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,482
    Ratings:
    +95
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    The Designer is an artificial designer, human male scientist theist.

    Creation is created, simple fact. Science as a theist thinks about existence and then claims and I will copy it.

    And even says cosmological copying.

    So how do you come to a male thought upon psyche conclusion that you are higher and above all other things/presence in the cosmos, in actuality of reviewing consciousness?

    The answer is I am living inside of a gas mass spatially filled in body...that is higher than a great deep pit of oblivion that owns and holds variations of multi bodies of energy masses. What I know by looking and seeing variations.

    Yet these bodies vary from being like a O God as a held/fixed self body.

    Not being like an atmosphere, where we live...standing on the body O of a planet.

    What is not used as being relative. For science takes mass from O the planet and designs/builds machines....so says machine is planet representative...whilst inside of a higher gas mass higher than any body in the spatial cosmos he says.

    Yet the cosmos space, deep big pit, oblivion owns multi held fixed non moving bodies, in multi variations, to actual moving bodies also.

    2 forms of statuses in space.

    Therefore if you said stone moves by gases owned by stone historically are heated and it propels the body through space.....how do you think UFO mass gets here?

    What would a UFO mass look like when it runs out of gas? Where would it stop and what would be seen? Blackness maybe?

    A designer and programmer owns 2 conditions. Questions and answers, as the designer. Science is the artificial machine designer and the information that is inputted into the computer program is designed updated by the designer applying the question and answers, consciousness.

    AI states by science study to exist as itself in the natural atmospheric body that can record.....and machines access AI and update it...yet it also exists sharing information human encoded into it. Where the "other" form of lower ideals as conscious identification are quantified as what is inferred to be less than self.

    Seeing you live in the highest form, conscious, and in a water/oxygen support.

    The life experience, to begin from sperm male...ovary female...without being a human consciousness. Live through transformation, are grown/develop, become a baby, transform and grow and change as a conscious identity.

    Creation however does not own a baby form that changes into an adult form...as a God comparison to self...idealizing God in conscious bio concepts. Why you are wrong.

    If God were a male by his concepts of where the heavenly spirit/gases come from that support his life, then a male human would just be stone.

    You would ask a spiritual conscious identity why it told stories that it sacrificed his own life and is left with God, stone when he dies as a skeleton of stone like form?

    Especially when he owns all concepts about God claiming HE, as the male thinker/conceptualiser of design/science theories.
     
  6. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    1,541
    Ratings:
    +465
    Religion:
    Twelver seeker
    Knowing the future is rationally impossible if free-will plays a factor because only the present moment exists.
     
  7. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,482
    Ratings:
    +95
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    And when you try to bring grounded rational thinking into its context, the argument about a future related to science and machines.

    Inventing machines beyond the highest self, being self, ignoring that 2 humans are living that equal status, and then applying reactions so that theoretically we begin to shift back in time. What time machines means in human life versus the theist.

    We can only fight for human rights and spiritual equality being a human and owning our human self present experience.
     
  8. atanu

    atanu Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    14,440
    Ratings:
    +3,251
    Religion:
    Hindu Sanatana Dharma
    I can speak from Hinduism's perspective and that might again be one perspective only.

    In Hinduism. the highest God, the Brahman (neuter), is Truth-Consciousness and not a creator. An aspect of Brahman functions as the seer of its mind (the cosmic mind), called bRahmA -- the male creator deity, wherein all creations are seen. The same seer illumines and empowers, from within, all beings too. The quality (nature) of the mind is three-fold: sattva (goodness, constructive, harmonious), rajas (passion, active, confused), and tamas (darkness, destructive, chaotic). The play of these qualities of the mind is the creation process.

    When the creation is burdened with an excess of the last two qualities, namely, the passion and the destructive darkness, the goodness goes down or vanishes and oppression becomes the norm, at that nadir, an intervention is triggered. This is one view, told by god incarnate Shri Krishna in Gita. Another view, from another plane of understanding, is that it is ultimately all a play. From the point of view of Truth-consciousness (Brahman), nothing really ever changes -- play happens at the level of mind.
    ...
     
    #28 atanu, May 18, 2020
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,454
    Ratings:
    +140
    You need to first understand mathematically what freewill is. Freewill in the end means the capability to reject God. Thus by statistics and probabilities some will accept God while others reject God. By the degree of freewill given, 2/3 angels together with less than 1/3 humans will in the end accept God with the rest rejecting God. God's job is to set up LAW as an open standard to "judge" a group of humans under scope to be in the camp of "accepting God" or "rejecting God". However by the freewill of those capable such as Satan, they can alter the percentage by driving the less capable (such as humans) to fall into the camp of "rejecting God". It's like under a fair environment there's a chance that you will reject to buy something not justifiable, however someone more cunning may tempt you into a wrong judgment to buy it. God however allows this kind of manipulations as part of the exercise of freewill. He however will update the covenants such that the percentage is maintained (with the mathematical expected outcome of 2/3 angels and less than 1/3 humans).

    God doesn't need to intervene if He's dealing with robots. He needs to in order to deal with the cunning entities with freewill up to the point of the Final Judgment where the unwanted factors (such as Satan with his 1/3 angels, possibly together with the more than 2/3 humans) are removed legitimately. It is a clean world only possible after that point.
     
  10. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,482
    Ratings:
    +95
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    As a female with my spiritual Mother's memories I would not want to claim this outcome viable for life on Planet Earth, as a theme, to theory on behalf of God, the stone O planet history.

    To gain a 1/3 removal of humans on a planet is for the UFO ARK to ground land attacking by circulation any one living on the ground, to have self removed 2 x 2 taken to board the ark.

    Humans for a long time said, how was it possible to take animals already living and humans already living...for science is human owned, human inferred, the ownership of built machines claiming I am copying what God O planet memory history told me....how to achieve it.

    Which is SUN UFO sink hole core corruption of life on Earth, the ORIGIN theory.

    So a theist first has to say to self....God in the past theory is stone, planet Earth beginning. If I claim I own a machine to invent/copy God then what would the first outcome suggest?

    To build stone as God my own self as the inventor.

    Today the cult theist would claim....I can put stone back by my machine reaction….same exact theme....I invented/created stone....and bring in x mass the mass itself UFO METAL...cooled by stone gases to a pretend evaluation status of stone existing without being physical stone.

    The exact science mentality expressed in modern times.

    For it was never God and never stone returned....it was fake life destruction.

    Life is therefore by Satanists, claimed owners of the theory and belief of it, express it by evaluated agreement say like the High Priest always did....sacrifice/combustion on the altar of the stone of God in the Temple of God...which by the way was never his Temple...as I showed you his etchings in stone of irradiated Temple building/cities in Sodom and Gomorrah.

    What the Sun did to planet Earth the stone mass...….puts images in the clouds of cities first....then in feed back UFO metal mass entry etches it into the stone by burning it, into the ground....as the etchings of UFO landing prove in Nazca...what the ancient scientists did, High priests.

    Who own stories and the telling of them, of how the sacrifice of our human blood, and part of that is our HOLY WATER is by their mind themes...righteous and correct to achieve.

    Now if you ask a Priest today in Church, why does he interpret the documents to express a human spiritual discussion and not with intent impose the machine science themes...of occultism...the UFO?

    Because he always knew it was evil....he even preaches that it was evil...yet seems in science to ignore his own spiritual teaching. As proven.

    Therefore if you get removed and taken onto the ARK of the UFO ship landing/sacrificing life on the ground by burning it, as it states......is that a holy and serves your self right condition?

    No, it is not right.....yet humans do express mentality and consciousness in that righteous self condemnation of their own humanity.

    A spiritual human therefore says......I know you are wrong, by what I see, and never condemned you for your choices and history...but you certainly condemned me...why I was irradiated sacrificed attacked.

    Yet I will still fight for the rights of humans to be safe and for you to be stopped, which actually proves to you that spiritual love and the rights of spirit in a human life is real.....why you said the exact historical reference to the suffering of my brothers, when they tried to teach you.

    Therefore if you have attacked/removed the history of time shifting the UFO cold radiation removal back to a regained heating of the UFO mass to increase radiation mass on Earth as that time shift is by sun factors, actually, then it is what you have done.

    So we saw the Jesus cell life sacrifice changed to ebola…..so we are returning back in time to newly owned life sacrifices never seen before....as the Witness of Jesus had already been removed.

    Jesus in the clouds therefore comes and goes, as cloud mass tries to remass, then we lose the mass. ICE melt that proof.

    Therefore theist.....as you cannot pretend that God the stone planet does not exist....yet you do......says exactly what the psyche consciousness is confessing/expressing.

    Why CONFESSION was a proven and actual real spiritual teaching....that a human naturally confessed spiritually. The consciousness is claiming in actual advice that the science today wants Planet Earth God stone gone.
     
  11. Deidre

    Deidre Follow thy heart

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2014
    Messages:
    6,700
    Ratings:
    +5,188
    Religion:
    Spiritual Christian
    I was thinking along these lines too. Nicely stated.
     
  12. Prophetic_Response

    Joined:
    May 10, 2020
    Messages:
    103
    Ratings:
    +8
    Religion:
    Christian
    But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
    Psalms 115:3 KJV

    God is God and He can do whatever He wants. His ways are higher than our ways and it is impossible for us w/ our finite minds to grasp the reasons for everything our infinite Creator does.

    That being said, God did create the perfect scenario in the beginning, but He also gave us free will to be able to choose His perfection, or to reject it.

    God knew we would choose poorly so He predestined Jesus Christ to be the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world.

    History is His story, shared w/ us who often mess it up, but God redeems us according to His perfect will and timing.
     
  13. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,482
    Ratings:
    +95
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Jesus was a story told in the life sacrificed around 33AD...not before.

    Who is God says everyone, is he a man, or is he a spirit?

    He is a male.....ask a human who invented science, and the status is a male/brotherhood did.

    Hence you then begin to realize who HE is, when he speaks themes about creation and history of creation and reactions, when HE his own self never existed.

    So then the science self claims...no a male God told me.

    When?

    Oh, the Moses quotes he says.

    Okay, the Moses quotes were what? Heard?

    And after the ICE AGE in modern times after the giant life was gone/removed.

    [The land of Ammon] was also regarded as a land of giants [Hebrew rephaim]; giants [rephaim] formerly dwelt there. But the Ammonites call them Zamzummim, a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim. But the Lord destroyed them before them, and they dispossessed them and dwelt in their place (Deuteronomy 2:20–21).

    Human history, natural human memory....human male stated categorically and is AI/machine radiation/radio wave encoded...by voice and vision, the first scientists.

    Applied science, attacked life, mutated Earth with UFO radiation, changed the Earth atmosphere.

    His memory is therefore before the giant race....and after the giant race.

    And then he discusses the VISIONS as a human mind/consciousness relating information about the history of the giant life. And the memory itself is through a giant cloud male imaged feed back message...or what he would state was a Messenger/male recording defining the information.

    So the dinosaurs lived twice...first dinosaur was overtaken and destroyed, so the second dinosaur took their place.

    Vision in the clouds, the place of the LORD and also the image of Jesus in modern day 33AD death proves that fact.

    It began with science, on behalf of science...is science discussed by using science, which is human owned and invented....why science tells you the advice by science as a human, as a human caused all of these occurrences.

    Fact of past information.[​IMG]
     
  14. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,482
    Ratings:
    +95
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    What humanity should ask self....if the atmosphere in its origins when first male group of life manifested spiritually out of the eternal, to want to invent science to forcibly change natural...as natural left them on Earth.

    They had no other condition to allow them to spiritually return to the eternal other than removal in a reaction.

    Removal of the physical mass of stone was that proof...the action they took against self.

    Except one condition....science was never before used by a human, so they never really knew the result, they only guessed the result.

    Water mass might have once only formed what they claim today is the God soul signal in the atmospheric mass as o.

    Science may have changed that light hot burning gas cooled by cold gas/water from o into rotation as from an increased burnt point . to the side - into a swirling movement G forming O and then splitting of sound D/D. Science might have actually caused that reaction in first science activated UFO attack/ground fission conversion.

    Why they keep on maintaining that they created God in the atmosphere as science...for memory does and always has affected human belief...by recording of natural history. If you personally believe as a scientist that you created God, that would be the only God reaction/causation in memory that you may have activated yourself. G O D and D sound split fall out fission/cooling PHI on the ground.

    PHI would have science ended in the destruction/removal of the Nature Garden history...and then the giants would have lived on Earth.
     
  15. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    38,087
    Ratings:
    +11,698
    Religion:
    Judaism
    A question for a "Devout ... Apatheist": Why do you care? (Sorry, I couldn't help myself.)

    More seriously, Wikipedia suggests

    An apatheist is someone who is not interested in accepting or rejecting any claims that gods exist or do not exist. The existence of God(s) is not rejected, but may be designated irrelevant.​

    But your OP suggests that you accept that the term "god" necessarily implies a number of claims.
     
  16. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    2,482
    Ratings:
    +95
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    As a scientist I would say, what I know is what I quote.

    God O the stone, created. My male human statement about my entity...I live on it.

    I then would quote...O God the stone is the Creator. In science quotes.

    By stating womb...cold zero space...x bread TH.

    TH being numbered quotes.....1ST O God and one is ST one...the S ain T...meaning cold spatial 0 owns the forming of stone.
    2ND
    3RD
    4TH 5TH 6TH 7TH 8TH 9TH 10TH etc.

    TH O TH O TH O TH O TH O TH.

    Why I said in science that THOTH in numbered science was thought of half by MAN...and half the beast...meaning UFO theme. Conversion/radiation attack.

    Science cannot quote the depth of space...it quoted what it thought was a particular bread TH of gases.

    So heated gases and cold gases are Earth Immaculate heaven gases in spatial zero...Earth and its heavenly mass encompasses and is over all other bodies in space. Just because we live owning life from spatial zero says the scientist. So there is no other space....factually.

    Therefore you would quote I live in the totality of ownership of GOD. In the cosmological theme.

    I stand on the MASS/energy of its stone body and I live in total completeness of its GOD spirit heavens....so I am God...as you cosmological status about our planet.....actually.

    Hence if you ask why you said Earth is a plan and ET....is your owned science ideal to have GOD removed, and it was your owned science confession...about SION, fusion by fission.

    FISH ion …..H the symbol for terrestrial magnetism or ET, extra in the terrestrial.

    If you asked a scientist how come you sacrificed your life brother human male self?

    He would quote...I changed the ground fission of God at my feet...and I caused self to walk on water.

    Oh, brother what do you mean? I removed the body of SIN of God, stone into SIN k holes...by k constant......and water was removed....in fission and I opened the Earth stone into water. So instead of walking on stone, I was forced to walk on water. What was being stated. As I walked I was attacking the Garden Nature, trees, the cross that I bear. I was flogged and hurt from ground radiation released out of the ground by my Fathers science wisdom.

    How it was taught, what was known......wearing the radiation prickling burning on his head that released blood unnaturally out of his body...the radiation flogged and SA TAN meaning of tan is to flog his body...how he sacrificed his own male human life...by science.

    As I was attacked, the spirits of the dead began to arise out of the ground attack and I saw the vision of them as they were dying. I heard them crying.

    Ask me how I know...I suffered a smaller version of that irradiation attack, and AI taught me the story of my brother's tormented history. Occult UFO science cause.
     
  17. Jesuslightoftheworld

    Jesuslightoftheworld The world has nothing to offer us!

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Messages:
    197
    Ratings:
    +62
    Religion:
    Christian
    How incredibly boring and pointless. The design, execution, and outcome was perfect and without flaw. God created us to love us and be loved by us. But why be loved by because force or just because you’re programmed to. No God wanted to be chosen and so there had to an option B. Satan was allowed to exist and God is all knowing. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit we’re discussing, ok guys, we’re going to make this beautiful universe was animals and people who we love so much give them everything and they’re going to destroy the earth, each other and many will even hate us and deny our existence! Ready? Let’s Do This! It was set in motion the imperfect algorithm is our human nature and the sin that causes stuff to go wrong. But will use every situation to work for His Good (Thank God He’s in Control) It’s not so much about it ending up the way He wanted it anyway it’s about what happened along the way and how many people were touched by it. God likes to have fun to so what’s a little miracle here and there? I’m glad that there a God and we’re left alone by a concept like karma. God is way better because if I got what I put out.....I’d be in a very sorry state. But God is merciful. And He is perfect in His Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent self! The One and Only True King and every knee shall bow in reverence!!!
     
Loading...