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A question for science? Is Liberalism a religion?

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Why not? It's a statement of fact.

Re "Shall the cultural Marxists ever call these Dead White Men?"

Facts don't matter - politics is all.
For many Marxists, calling these three devils "dead white men"
is a form of disrespect.

It's a fact that American Democrats were behind slavery, KKK
and segregation, but do Democrats or their history books say
this?
It's a fact that the end of 'religious wars' in the West led to
vastly more deadly secular wars. Do people say that?
It's a fact that nuclear power is way safer than coal mining
and coal burning, but do we say that?

etc
etc

You are right - Communism isn't religion, but it sought to
fill the place of religion.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I can confirm that communism isn't a religion.
I'm a communist, and I'm atheist.

I am a Christian.
I can confirm that Communism sought to take the place of religion.

Communism has its:
holy trinity (Marx, Engels and Lenin)
holy books (Das Kapital, Communist Manifesto)
brotherhood of man (workers of the world unite)
explanation for being (dialectic materialism)
saints as beloved family members (uncle Joe, uncle Mao, uncle Ho)
sinners and devils (Capitalism, upper class, intellectuals, Kulaks)
holy wars (material and political support for North Vietnam)
myopic view of history (all history, culture, war as class struggle)
inquisitions (Cultural Revolution, Stalin's show trails)
killing of the infidels (150,000,0000 people in Russia, East Europe, Asia)

and

failure of reckoning (refusal of Communists to be accountable or
honest with what the ideology did to people's lives)


The main difference is that Communism never stood the test of time
like religion has.
 
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Woberts

The Perfumed Seneschal
I am a Christian.
I can confirm that Communism sought to take the place of religion.

Communism has its:
holy trinity (Marx, Engels and Lenin)
holy books (Das Kapital, Communist Manifesto)
brotherhood of man (workers of the world unite)
explanation for being (dialectic materialism)
saints as beloved family members (uncle Joe, uncle Mao, uncle Ho)
sinners and devils (Capitalism, upper class, intellectuals, Kulaks)
holy wars (material and political support for North Vietnam)
myopic view of history (all history, culture, war as class struggle)
inquisitions (Cultural Revolution, Stalin's show trails)
killing of the infidels (150,000,0000 people in Russia, East Europe, Asia)

and

failure of reckoning (refusal of Communists to be accountable or
honest with what the ideology did to people's lives)


The main difference is that Communism never stood the test of time
like religion has.
That's a pretty fair an unbiased review of communism you've got there, sir.
You forgot your satirical reference out of 10, though.
Better luck next time, chap.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
That's a pretty fair an unbiased review of communism you've got there, sir.
You forgot your satirical reference out of 10, though.
Better luck next time, chap.

Yes, I do believe all arguments ought to be specific.
I can point to ten or twenty Capitalist societies I am
happy to live in. I can think of no Communist/Socialist
one I would live - same with you too, no doubt.
 

Woberts

The Perfumed Seneschal
Yes, I do believe all arguments ought to be specific.
I can point to ten or twenty Capitalist societies I am
happy to live in. I can think of no Communist/Socialist
one I would live - same with you too, no doubt.
There is quite a bit of doubt. In fact, that's flat out wrong.
At least you capitalized the C in communism. We'll make a comrade outta you yet.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
There is quite a bit of doubt. In fact, that's flat out wrong.
At least you capitalized the C in communism. We'll make a comrade outta you yet.

Mister Non-Specific
here's my list of ten Capitalist countries I am happy to live in - in order of preference
Australia (mine)
New Zealand
USA
England
Canada
France
Germany
Sweden
Denmark
Norway

and ten Communist countries you must prefer
former Soviet Union
East Germany
Bulgaria
Poland
China
Vietnam
Cambodia
Cuba
North Korea
Laos

Which country would you prefer to live in?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Re "Shall the cultural Marxists ever call these Dead White Men?"

Facts don't matter - politics is all.
For many Marxists, calling these three devils "dead white men"
is a form of disrespect.
Care to name some?

It's a fact that American Democrats were behind slavery, KKK
and segregation, but do Democrats or their history books say
this?
You do realize that both political parties have been historically involved in all these things too, right?

It's a fact that the end of 'religious wars' in the West led to
vastly more deadly secular wars. Do people say that?
No, because it's meaningless.

It's a fact that nuclear power is way safer than coal mining
and coal burning, but do we say that?
What does that have to do with anything?

You are right - Communism isn't religion,
Boom, so you admit that your entire argument has been a waste of everyone's time. Thank you.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Boom, so you admit that your entire argument has been a waste of everyone's time. Thank you.

No, Communism isn't religion. My point is that it is treated as a religion.
It sought to replace all religions, ie the suppression of the Russian
Orthodox and Chinese Confucianism. Burning of bibles, destruction
of monasteries, banning bibles, killing clerics and monks.
In its place we get this Marx, Engels and Lenin Crap. In some places
you had to have these guys portraits hanging in your house.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
No, Communism isn't religion. My point is that it is treated as a religion.
How? In what way?

It sought to replace all religions, ie the suppression of the Russian
Orthodox and Chinese Confucianism. Burning of bibles, destruction
of monasteries, banning bibles, killing clerics and monks.
Yes, Communist regimes sought to eliminate religion. And...?

In its place we get this Marx, Engels and Lenin Crap. In some places
you had to have these guys portraits hanging in your house.
Care to provide examples? Were they treated like literal Gods?
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Care to name some?
.

Re dead white males.
Not naming one makes my point. Columbus, Washington, Jefferson, Robert E.Lee
etc are cited as dead white males, so too are famous philosophers and scientists.
Never once heard Marx, Engels or Lenin treated as a "dead white male."
Why? Because their words and deeds live on, their spirit is with us today. They
fought imperialism, Capitalism, sexism, hierarchy, injustice etc.. (actually they
did nothing of the sort, but that's a fact and facts are subjective, ask another
man who is not a dead white male - Derrida.)
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
How? In what way?
Care to provide examples? Were they treated like literal Gods?

Yeah, as I wrote above
Communism has its:
holy trinity (Marx, Engels and Lenin)
holy books (Das Kapital, Communist Manifesto)
brotherhood of man (workers of the world unite)
explanation for being (dialectic materialism)
saints as beloved family members (uncle Joe, uncle Mao, uncle Ho)
sinners and devils (Capitalism, upper class, intellectuals, Kulaks)
holy wars (material and political support for North Vietnam)
myopic view of history (all history, culture, war as class struggle)
inquisitions (Cultural Revolution, Stalin's show trails)
killing of the infidels (150,000,0000 people in Russia, East Europe, Asia)

and

failure of reckoning (refusal of Communists to be accountable or
honest with what the ideology did to people's lives)
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Quote "It's a fact that nuclear power is way safer than coal mining
and coal burning, but do we say that?"

As stated - my point is to show that facts don't matter. All is
politics. In fact politics replaces religion.
But that has nothing to do with anything being discussed in this thread. Or are you suggesting only Marxists/Communists/Liberals/the left engage in politics rather than facts?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Re dead white males.
Not naming one makes my point. Columbus, Washington, Jefferson, Robert E.Lee
etc are cited as dead white males, so too are famous philosophers and scientists.
Never once heard Marx, Engels or Lenin treated as a "dead white male."
Why?
Presumably because they're never mentioned with the same degree of reverence and un-impeachability that the names of Columbus, Washing, Jefferson and Lee generally are in modern America. People tend to evoke the names of the above constantly as figures deserving of absolute reverence and respect, and their words and deeds are often repeated as if their opinions are still completely relevant today. I assume the "dead white men" jibe is more a reaction against giving undue deference to a long gone generation of people who were actually a lot less moral or credible than we, perhaps, wish to believe. Meanwhile, Marx, Engels and Lenin are never really brought up in the same contexts except by tiny, fractious minorities of Marxists or Leninists, and even so I'd be surprised if the same standards weren't applied.

Because their words and deeds live on, their spirit is with us today. They
fought imperialism, Capitalism, sexism, hierarchy, injustice etc.. (actually they
did nothing of the sort, but that's a fact and facts are subjective, ask another
man who is not a dead white male - Derrida.)
This is just baseless rambling.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Yeah, as I wrote above
Communism has its:
holy trinity (Marx, Engels and Lenin)
holy books (Das Kapital, Communist Manifesto)
brotherhood of man (workers of the world unite)
explanation for being (dialectic materialism)
saints as beloved family members (uncle Joe, uncle Mao, uncle Ho)
sinners and devils (Capitalism, upper class, intellectuals, Kulaks)
holy wars (material and political support for North Vietnam)
myopic view of history (all history, culture, war as class struggle)
inquisitions (Cultural Revolution, Stalin's show trails)
killing of the infidels (150,000,0000 people in Russia, East Europe, Asia)

and

failure of reckoning (refusal of Communists to be accountable or
honest with what the ideology did to people's lives)
Again, this is just rambling. You can give arbitrary labels to whatever you want and determine practically anything is a religion. In fact, by this standard almost any political ideology can be classed as a religion.

You've already agreed Communism isn't a religion, so this comparison is just pointless and unnecessary and confuses the issue. Stop already.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Again, this is just rambling. You can give arbitrary labels to whatever you want and determine practically anything is a religion. In fact, by this standard almost any political ideology can be classed as a religion.

You've already agreed Communism isn't a religion, so this comparison is just pointless and unnecessary and confuses the issue. Stop already.

Image this in a school debate.
Team A present the Affirmative. Takes care with the quality of the argument,
the facts at hand, seeks to be specific, avoids logic fallacies etc..
Team B stands up and just says, "This is just rambling. Stop already."
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
But that has nothing to do with anything being discussed in this thread. Or are you suggesting only Marxists/Communists/Liberals/the left engage in politics rather than facts?

No, its just that they are better at it.

Proof - take the political correctness wars on campus.
Lots of the liberals are not even aware of opposing arguments,
or having heard them, flee to a safe space with a puppy dog.
Such PC liberals cannot address counter arguments because
they have labelled them as sexist, racist, homophobic etc..
These labels are designed to shut down debate, not to enlighten
the issues.

Plenty of conservatives for instance don't accept left wing issues
but they won't shut you down with loud speakers or force of numbers.

I know - I wouldn't countenance anyone telling me back in 1976 that
we faced Global Freezing. This was caused by Capitalism, Imperialism,
Corporate Greed and America. Yeah, I had to grow up and start thinking
for myself instead of being part of a Trotsky mob.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Image this in a school debate.
Team A present the Affirmative. Takes care with the quality of the argument,
the facts at hand, seeks to be specific, avoids logic fallacies etc..
Team B stands up and just says, "This is just rambling. Stop already."
Except this isn't a school debate, and you're not presenting an argument. You're just rambling.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
No, its just that they are better at it.

Proof - take the political correctness wars on campus.
Examples?

Lots of the liberals are not even aware of opposing arguments,
or having heard them, flee to a safe space with a puppy dog.
Again, examples?

Such PC liberals cannot address counter arguments because
they have labelled them as sexist, racist, homophobic etc..
These labels are designed to shut down debate, not to enlighten
the issues.
Really? Because, from my experience, liberals are the ones more actively engaged in debate, while most responses to them have been to suggest that the issues they raise aren't worth debating.

Plenty of conservatives for instance don't accept left wing issues
but they won't shut you down with loud speakers or force of numbers.
Are you kidding? People belittle, insult and call people who raise social justice issues names all the time. It even happens on these forums with stunning regularity. Heck, you can even see it here in your own post!

I know - I wouldn't countenance anyone telling me back in 1976 that
we faced Global Freezing. This was caused by Capitalism, Imperialism,
Corporate Greed and America. Yeah, I had to grow up and start thinking
for myself instead of being part of a Trotsky mob.
Question: is everyone who doesn't agree with you part of a "Trotsky mob"?

Question 2: do you at all think this kind of attitude is entirely different to your earlier mentioned "shutting down of debate"?
 
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