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A question about The Second Amendment

Discussion in 'Law' started by Skwim, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    It formed on emergency situations.
     
  2. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    Cool! You still have your banjo?

    Yeah. It gets more difficult for me to find the time.



    It would be very different going up against well trained and equipped enemy soldiers.



    I am not sure anyone did. I didn't.



    I misread your post. I thought you were saying that the military got to choose who they would defend. I somehow missed that you were talking about rebellion. Though I doubt that the issue would dissolve into open rebellion by the entire gun control crowd. Maybe some factions, but whether the military would need to be called in for them is debatable, and I think doubtful

    Also, there are a lot of people in the military from metropolitan areas of the country too. I haven't got the figures, but I have met a lot of veterans and active duty soldiers from cities.
     
  3. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    Good. Good. Tell me more that I won't understand. You can even make some stuff up. Heck I won't understand that either.

    Of course, I have no idea how the military works. Clearly, they get to choose whether they fight this battle or that battle or that army or some other army. It's all so simple and Chad here explained it all. Like I am even reading your posts more than just enough to come up with these meandering pointless responses.

    What about bacon. Canadian bacon is a lie. Whadda ya think sporto?

    Seriously. If you have something to say, just spit it out. Don't hold back. Tell me what you really think. No need to be coy son.
     
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I do agree that the term "well regulated militia" is a bit outdated to say the least. Though I have heard the argument that at that time the word "regulated" was a synonym for "armed".
     
  5. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    That assumes and ignores much. For one, there is no revolution so we don't know who the army will be going after (but there are gun nutters among the Left as well), and the military has been sent in before. And they've been sent against native tribes, college students, looters and rioters, and the Klan and other "makers of trouble" in the former Confederate states during the Reconstruction years. And the Confederate Army.
    Not too many people really think this one out. People talk a lot about how this or that will prevent it from ever happening, this or that can't happen, or that they need their super high-rate-of-volume high-capacity magazine so they can fight against Uncle Sam. Should that happen, again, good camo will serve people better than high-grade military equipment. Like it did in Vietnam. Which you also pretty much never hear from anyone on either side that conventional warfare is pretty much unwinnable able Uncle Sam. Those fighting guerilla will be the last ones alive. People today (young or old, but in my experience slightly more with young) don't realize communication also becomes a very big issue. If you don't have the most basic two-way transmissions, pretty much nothing is safe to use electronically. But people are gonna win with their guns. And it's definitely a Right problem. I've met a handful of Lefties who believe it (and they, much like their Right counterparts often even want to arm violent criminals), but it's definitely way more on the Right. Urban Liberal Democrats are about the only group I've met who consistently churns out people who shy away from guns if not support actual outright bans. Most other people, good chance in America, either support them ideologically and/or grew up with them and more-or-less, basically support the same ideas and "reasonable restrictions" once you start to actual talk it out with them. Excluding the dogmatic, Left or Right, I've not met many who actually deviate from a fairly close and functionally identical enough approach to gun control. The only "hit and miss" facet of gun control I've found is the idea of a national registration of guns; some people find it would be an asset in controlling gun crime and help protect legal owners, some see it an unconstitutional intrusion. Other than that, pretty much everyone I have ever talked to on the issue of guns really does pretty much believe and support the same things. You just can't ask online. Then it gets all skewed up and messed and is really only a cursory glance into the possibilities of what some people are thinking. Real life people and internet people just really don't act alike. It brings to mind increases in news outlets reporting crime despite a trending decline in overall crime. They aren't lying, it is out there. It did happen. But do we really need to be so afraid as to think we live in a warzone (Republican sheriff in Indiana)? The Twitter Mob? Come out, come out, where ever they are. Even Bill Maher can't get one to take him up on his challenge.
     
  6. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    You have yet to refute a single thing I said and babble about something I never said. Yawn

    You can take your foot out of your mouth now.

    Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia

    What is Insubordination?

    https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1575&context=californialawreview

    That is why it easy to counter your points. You put in no effort to your posts and research You just babble and bluff. You become upset when someone points out you have no idea what you are talking about.
     
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  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Yeah. Those who have their hunting rifles and shotguns often don't have anymore than those. But, every once in awhile, there will be someone who has tons of guns, so many guns you probably could arm a small militia with them. Not the most effective militia, but it would be a "rag-tag better than nothing" effort. But there's not that many people around they'd actually have to share with because lots of people in rural areas have at least one gun (the NRA even used to rate Bernie Sanders highly because his ideas for gun control work for a rural state and people still have guns). These people, who really aren't even collectors, inexplicably have a crap ton of guns. More than they reasonably need for anything. It is clearly not an armory, but more of a fetish.
     
  8. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    We have a right that I fully support and we have a problem that is getting worse. How do we resolve that? Not just mass shootings, but a better means to keep guns out of criminal hands in general.

    Should we consider all the deaths to be the price that comes with out rights? Some here seem to believe that is all there is to it.

    I think that the point of the militia is a bit dated and of little meaning these days, but that does not invalidate the right to keep and bear arms in my opinion.
     
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  9. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Collecting something does not make it a fetish merely because you dislike the object collected.
     
  10. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    I am not even reading your posts Chad. If you want to feel big and beat up on someone, fine. But I studied military science for two years. I am familiar with it. I simply misread a post, but my responses were still correct with the context of the misunderstanding. I can admit that I made an error, but I do not think you can. That's ok son. I forgive you.
     
  11. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Very reddit of you. You have still to refute anything I said so you just babble and troll as you were exposed.

    I corrected you and you couldn't handle it. Hilarious.

    I hope you didn't spend money on it given your blunders.

    No you aren't.

    No it isn't

    Yawn. You are still wrong. Try again.
     
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  12. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Here's a start:

    High capacity magazines
    Licensing
    Registration
    Complete background checks for all purchases
     
  13. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I specifically stated they aren't collectors. They have tons of guns, few of them of any real interest to a gun collector.
     
  14. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    You are just injecting a premise of what and why a collector collects. Completely subjective point. You are just asserting a motive from thin air.
     
  15. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    Do you dislike guns or do you just dislike the unlawful use of guns?
     
  16. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    Is disagreeing with an Amendment of the Constitution the same as revolting against this country? Are you saying that people do not have a right to not agree with our present state of gun ownership or seek means to change it?
     
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  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I would work on the most important first and see if that improves the situation. First off high capacity magazines have to go. There really is no need for them for either self defense or hunting. Second I would go with a complete background check. Some gun people claim that these already exist, but it appears that those with a history of mental illness have still been able to purchase firearms. As long as we keep aware of the rights of people to purchase guns this should not be a problem.

    Licensing and registration will excessively raise the hackles of some of the gun nuts (please note gun owners, not all gun owners are gun nuts) in my opinion.
     
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  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Of course not. Amendments can be changed, or even eliminated if there is enough support to do so.
     
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  19. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
    The text of the Second Amendment reads in full: “A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” The framers of the Bill of Rights adapted the wording of the amendment from nearly identical clauses in some of the original 13 state constitutions.


    During the Revolutionary War era, “militia” referred to groups of men who banded together to protect their communities, towns, colonies and eventually states, once the United States declared its independence from Great Britain in 1776.

    Many people in America at the time believed governments used soldiers to oppress the people, and thought the federal government should only be allowed to raise armies (with full-time, paid soldiers) when facing foreign adversaries. For all other purposes, they believed, it should turn to part-time militias, or ordinary civilians using their own weapons.

    STATE MILITIAS
    But as militias had proved insufficient against the British, the Constitutional Convention gave the new federal government the power to establish a standing army, even in peacetime.


    ADVERTISEMENT
    However, opponents of a strong central government (known as Anti-Federalists) argued that this federal army deprived states of their ability to defend themselves against oppression. They feared that Congress might abuse its constitutional power of “organizing, arming and disciplining the Militia” by failing to keep militiamen equipped with adequate arms.


    So, shortly after the U.S. Constitution was officially ratified, James Madison proposed the Second Amendment as a way to empower these state militias. While the Second Amendment did not answer the broader Anti-Federalist concern that the federal government had too much power, it did establish the principle (held by both Federalists and their opponents) that the government did not have the authority to disarm citizens.
    https://www.history.com/topics/united-states-constitution/2nd-amendment


    Looks like they felt it may be necessary for citizens of the states to band together to defend the sovereignty of the state against any oppressor up to and including the Federal government. They didn't want the Federal government to have the ability to disarm the citizenry.
     
    #79 Nakosis, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  20. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    I agree with you on this. But it was stated as if that was the case.

    In this country we have the right to disagree with something and that includes rights outlined under the Constitution. That is not an endorsement for any particular stance, just the right to have one.

    I do not see 2nd Amendment being repealed and I may not agree with those opposed to it, but I recognize their right to be opposed. I even understand the reasons for opposing it, given that we seem to be under an escalation of incidents involving mass murder.
     
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