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A question about The Second Amendment

Discussion in 'Law' started by Skwim, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    .

    The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."



    My question: What is the significant difference between:


    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    AND

    "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
    [​IMG]

    .
     
  2. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Our founding fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment realizing a society where only the police, military, and criminals bear arms is a society vulnerable to oppression, crime and genocide.



    "Defensive uses of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010)

    http://www.ncdsv.org/images/IOM-NRC...e-threat-of-firearm-related-violence_2013.pdf

    Guns are used more often to prevent violent crimes than be used to commit crimes.
     
    #2 Salvador, Sep 4, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
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  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I'm curious, because there is an utter absence of a well regulated militia or even any sort of measurements and tests of safety and competence when it comes to getting a gun and permits for them.
     
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  4. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    They didn't really have police then like we have today, and you're forgetting that militia part, which back then was for local defense option (the "Minute Men.") because who knows how long it could be before the US Military could arrive. And do you think Uncle Sam, Founders included, were pro-"Revolt Against Me?" And several Founders, such as Washington, had first-hand experience what the difference between farmers with a rifle and military-trained and provisioned soldiers is. Uncle Sam wouldn't have won the Revolution had it not been for the French. And do you believe having a gun will prevent Uncle Sam from writing away freedom? What are you going to do? Face 1,000 troops with a couple dozen or so militia members? That's not just a war that involves guns. And "out-teching" Uncle Sam really isn't an option.
     
  5. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    And of course, regulations are utterly opposed by the gun fanatics
     
  6. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Militia is formed out of civil population. So, population must have arms to form militia.
     
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  7. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Here is the ATF form required to be filled out for every new gun purchase. If you lie on this form it is an automatic felony.
    Atf_form_4473-firearms_transaction_record_5300_9revised_0.pdf.jpg

    And which permits are you inquiring about?

    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia which requires your finger prints to be stored in a national database and full background check.

    Or a class 3 weapons permit a.k.a.:

    Federal Firearms License - Wikipedia which can cost upwards to $5,000 a year after taxes, fees, etc to issue, renew, and maintain.

    Any felony convictions, misdemeanor domestic violence convictions, or history of certain diagnosed mentall illnesses automatically prevent you from obtaining these license and firearms.
     
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  8. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    And what regulations is that?
     
  9. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    What does it take to organize and assemble a well-regulated militia? I have never looked into it. Outside of the National Guard, I don't know of any. Well any that aren't part of some extremist group. I doubt they are well-regulated.

    Can you get grant money for this?
     
  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    And not one of those questions deals with safety, care, and proper handling and storage of a firearm. "Do you think it's appropriate to use firearms while under the influence of intoxicating substances?" It won't catch everyone, but anyone who would answer yes doesn't need a gun.
     
  11. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    This is still true today. In rural areas it may take as long as 30 minutes for the cops to arrive at your home once called. That's far too long to rely solely on the police.

    Also this holds true today. We haven't been invaded by a ground force on U.S. soil because our enemies know there is a gun behind every blade of grass.
     
  12. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    Believers in violence (good & evil) go on their belly. God, not guns. Believe it.
     
    #12 MonkeyFire, Sep 4, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  13. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    That's what gun safety courses are for. They are cheap and readily available. If you can afford a gun you can afford to take the class.
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    And lots of those rural homes have a shotgun or rifle. They don't have enough to arm a militia. It's not unusual if they frown upon handguns. Some are ok with them, some aren't. And they tend to be very big into gun safety.
     
  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    True. Take it first to demonstrate you know how to handle it.
     
  16. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    I'm not opposed to a gun safety course being a requirement before purchase. Though you shouldn't have to take a course for each purchase. Maybe make it a license that you need to retake the course every 5 years to renew the license, or something like that. Similar to how other govt issued licenses works.
     
  17. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    The "well regulated militia" today is the National Guard.
     
  18. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    It is a well regulated militia, but to my knowledge there are no actual legal definitions or stipulations as to what qualifies as a "well regulated militia."
     
  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    That's pretty much how I feel about it. Not all the time, but often enough to catch anything of life that may have happened that would impair their fitness to have a gun. I think we need to treat drivers license about the same, and require actual retesting with the driving test just to periodically check to make sure it's not something they're struggling with (it also takes care of the "age question," as it's a test of actual ability rather than an arbitrary age cut-off that may have age-related things that may-or-may-not actually apply to someone).
     
  20. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    The citizens are the militia. You underestimate the capability of a deer hunter with a bolt action rifle. I'd take a seasoned deer or Turkey hunter with a bolt action rifle, or a shotgun any day over a non-hunter with an ar15.
     
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