a question about a quote

[chuck010342]

"Depending on your point of reference the Republican party is typically considered right wing or far right and the Democratic party is left wing or center right."



so whats the difference between far right and center right and how come there is no far left??

 

[Willamena]

so whats the difference between far right and center right and how come there is no far left??

Not much difference... in Canada.

 

[T-Dawg]

so whats the difference between far right and center right and how come there is no far left??

In practice, there is no difference, since unrestricted capitalism invariably goes out of control, but theoretically, the center-right is more sane than the far-right. The center-right focus on profits, but they aren't usually psychotic (that is, they don't kill people for profit). For example, the healthcare debate - the center-right (democrats) want to have restrictions on the insurance companies' death pannels, but the far-right (republicans) believe the insurance companies should be free to screw over anyone they want.

And the reason we have no far-left party is because the system that the two-parties have set up is intentionally designed to make it ridiculously difficult for a third party to get in, and plus, far-left inherently flies in the face of what the wealthy and powerful want.

 

[YamiB.]

"Depending on your point of reference the Republican party is typically considered right wing or far right and the Democratic party is left wing or center right."



so whats the difference between far right and center right and how come there is no far left??

The difference between far right and center right is how extreme their views are obviously. Using the social of gay rights for example. A center right person might oppose same-sex marriage, somebody further right might oppose domestic partnerships, and an even further right person might support reinstating and enforcing anti-sodomy laws.

As for the point of view I was referring to my conversations with Europeans about American politics. Many Europeans I've talked with consider the Republicans to be far-right and lately I'm actually inclined to agree.

There isn't a further left party in America because overall the country is too conservative to succeed. I guess if I had to guess as the biggest single reason for that it might be because of the longstanding conflict with Communism. In addition the Democratic leadership had some success in the early 90s with some more center-right candidates so they have tried to follow that. Due to the recent Republican shift further right there has been some indications of movement to follow suit, though the base seems to be back to the left.

 

[chuck010342]

okay so if I am universally opposed to same sex marriage and want to make it illegal then i'm far right on that issue?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

okay so if I am universally opposed to same sex marriage and want to make it illegal then i'm far right on that issue?

Not necessarily. The traditional left/right spectrum is mainly about economic issues.

IMO, a two-axis system is better... such as this one: Political Compass - Analysis

 

[Mr Cheese]

Not necessarily. The traditional left/right spectrum is mainly about economic issues.

IMO, a two-axis system is better... such as this one: Political Compass - Analysis

correct...

right is generally about taking care of the rich, the elite few
and left is about the majority

we see this in the policy of Bush's beneficial taxation of the top 1% for example, right wing

We see this in the idea of redistrabution of wealth, that is a part of taxation, road building, school all ensure the majority are "ok", left wing

Taken to its extreme both idealogies are absurd.

Extreme Left examples would be places like China, where people earn the same wages no matter what they do, while the govenrment gets fat....

Extreme right wing would be Neo Nazis...

Of course this gets further confused by the fact that people like Hitler could argaubly be seen as far right and far left...

In practise of course political extremes give weight to the idea that left and right are actually flase ideas, as arguably communism for example, a left ideaology, has never fully been implemented, because the president of said regime should not be gettign fat, yet one just has to examine the life of Mao Tse Tung for example...

I would argue Americans by and large have been demonized to the point where they do not even know what left wing is. This has resulted in centerised politics where the lines are blurred... and ignoramuses being scared by words such as sociliasm.. even though they really don't know what it means.

It is ironic that many right wing voters are fundamentally the exact people that right wing policies seek to NOT benefit.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Not necessarily. The traditional left/right spectrum is mainly about economic issues.

IMO, a two-axis system is better... such as this one: Political Compass - Analysis

interesting model...

although I tend to find libertarian ideas to ultimatly be selfishness...

I guess I have been traumatized by Rand

 

[Kilgore Trout]

okay so if I am universally opposed to same sex marriage and want to make it illegal then i'm far right on that issue?

No, you'd be far wrong.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

interesting model...

although I tend to find libertarian ideas to ultimatly be selfishness...

I guess I have been traumatized by Rand

I'd say that you may be right a lot of the time, though I have met the odd libertarian who really is out to do as much good as he can with the resources he has and really does think that he's better at doing this than the government.

 

[YamiB.]

okay so if I am universally opposed to same sex marriage and want to make it illegal then i'm far right on that issue?

In America that would probably be considered a center right position. For some of the more progressive countries that would be a far right position.

 

[chuck010342]

and you are in error because you don't know the power of God and you don't know the scriptures

 

[Mr Cheese]

and you are in error because you don't know the power of God and you don't know the scriptures

SO you arent really here to discuss politics, just to be a homophobe

:sarcastic how UN Christ like of you....

satan would be proud

 

[T-Dawg]

Hang on guys, as a former Christian, I think I can handle this guy most effectively...

and you are in error because you don't know the power of God and you don't know the scriptures

I know the power of God and I know the scriptures, and I loathe the latter and have been disillusioned with the former. The Bible was not written by God, it was copied down by people who claimed God had spoken to them (or in some cases, the descendants of people who claimed God had spoken to them - you don't really think they had writing back in Adam and Eve's day, do you?). Even assuming that God really did speak to these people, the Bible has been corrupted and edited to the point of being a human work since then. That is why it is full of contradictions and blatant violations of human rights. If God had meant for us to follow the Bible, He would not have given us brains.

Jesus would be disappointed with you. Anyone who could love a tax collector in that time (they were considered traitors and people who sold out their Jewish brothers for monetary gain) could accept a homosexual.


PS: The Bible also says that the eating of shellfish is an abomination in the Old Testament (in the same lawbook that forbids homosexuality), and in the New Testament, Paul (the same guy who condemns homosexuality) says that women should not be allowed to speak in the church. Do you follow those commands, too, or do you just focus on homosexuality, because that's what your pastor told you?

 

[Darkness]

The best way of coming at the left-right spectrum is from a relative point of view (i.e. for each country or region). Otherwise, how do you judge what is a centrist government or political party. Objectively speaking, a centrist/moderate should be someone who wants half the economy controlled by the government or workers councils and half privatized, along with some liberal freedoms (e.g. abortion under some circumstances and maybe civil unions). Under these definitions, even Europe and China would seem very right-wing. Of course the reasoning breaks down because countries can be social liberal and economically neoliberal (neither left-wing nor right-wing). The Political Compass test is good, but I wish it included an foreign policy dimension.

 

[T-Dawg]

The Political Compass test is good, but I wish it included an foreign policy dimension.

It does, it's a number line separate from the rest of the graph, just like the "culture war" thing. It's not very good and it's based off American politics, though.

I think the political compass is a bit slanted. You literally have to be a psychotic corporatist ********* to get onto the authoritarian right in that quiz. The questions are worded so that people will usually go farther to the left and libertarian, for example, the first question is "If globalization is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations." Almost no one would put "strongly disagree" on that one, even if they were on the authoritarian right, because even those people like to think that they're doing good for humanity.

 

[chuck010342]

In practice, there is no difference, since unrestricted capitalism invariably goes out of control, but theoretically, the center-right is more sane than the far-right. The center-right focus on profits, but they aren't usually psychotic (that is, they don't kill people for profit). For example, the healthcare debate - the center-right (democrats) want to have restrictions on the insurance companies' death pannels, but the far-right (republicans) believe the insurance companies should be free to screw over anyone they want.

And the reason we have no far-left party is because the system that the two-parties have set up is intentionally designed to make it ridiculously difficult for a third party to get in, and plus, far-left inherently flies in the face of what the wealthy and powerful want.

What about abortion would a democrat rather the child live and a republican kill the child?

 

[tumbleweed41]

I said this:

and you are in error because you don't know the power of God and you don't know the scriptures

somebody else said this:


SO you arent really here to discuss politics, just to be a homophobe

how UN Christ like of you....

satan would be proud

homophobe? could you define that.

are you telling me that Christ would not discuss ideas.

are you also telling me that Satan would be proud of me quoting the scriptures?

First of all, why would you take the quotes out of context and post them on a separate thread? Why not ask these questions on the original thread?


For clarity, lets let at the bigger picture.

okay so if I am universally opposed to same sex marriage and want to make it illegal then i'm far right on that issue?

No, you'd be far wrong.

In America that would probably be considered a center right position. For some of the more progressive countries that would be a far right position.

and you are in error because you don't know the power of God and you don't know the scriptures

SO you arent really here to discuss politics, just to be a homophobe

:sarcastic how UN Christ like of you....

satan would be proud

So you took the discussion away from politics and stated someone (not sure who since you did not quote them specifically) did not know the "power of God" and "did not know scripture", turning into a scriptural debate.

Mr Cheese said the obvious, you are not here to discuss politics, and accused you of homophobia. That is having a fear or hatred for homosexuals. I imagine he came to this conclusion by your "universally opposed to same sex marriage and want to make it illegal" statement.

By UN-Christ like, you have violated Jesus's summation of the entire Law.
Mathew 7:12So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Christ's version of the Laws were simple, do unto others, it was not restrict the freedoms of others due to your own fears and hatreds.

And if Satan rejoices at those who worry more about outdated Laws than Christ's actual teachings, he is jumping for joy at your attitude.

 

[T-Dawg]

What about abortion would a democrat rather the child live and a republican kill the child?

It's actually reverse, the only people who support a woman's right to choose are pretty much on the democrat side.

Since it is impossible to determine when the soul enters a fetus, it would be unconstitutional for the government to restrict abortion.

If you want to talk about how the pro-choicers are murderers, please keep in mind that the republicans, their opposition, are killing adults (and children) in the mideast.