ecco
Veteran Member
If a scientist wanted to know when a house was constructed, he wouldn't do it by testing the age of the wood. Were you trying to erect a strawman?
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A proposed solution for Young Earth Creationism
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
ElishaElijah
Return
Then why are scientist assuming the age of the dirt is the same age as human beings. We have the genealogy records of Adam and Eve.
ecco
Veteran Member
The same is true for the notion that (the Christian God) has always existed.
The same is true for the notion that The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one entity.
The same is true for the notion ___insert just about any religious concept here___
Last Thursdayism does not care to address those issues.
OTOH no one can disprove Last Thursdayism, Therefore, it must be treated as "possible".
ecco
Veteran Member
See, I was right. You were erecting a strawman.
If you believe that scientists are "assuming the age of the dirt is the same age as human beings", then your knowledge of science is near zero.
No, you do not have "records". You have conflicting fabrications concocted by mortals who could have no actual knowledge of the things they wrote about.
Genealogies in the Bible - Wikipedia
The New Testament provides two accounts of the genealogy of Jesus, one in the Gospel of Matthew and another in the Gospel of Luke.[1] Matthew starts with Abraham, while Luke begins with Adam. The lists are identical between Abraham and David but differ radically from that point. Matthew has twenty-seven generations from David to Joseph, whereas Luke has forty-two, with almost no overlap between the names on the two lists. Notably, the two accounts also disagree on who Joseph's father was: Matthew says he was Jacob, while Luke says he was Heli.
Book of Genesis - Wikipedia
Tradition credits Moses as the author of Genesis, as well as the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and most of Deuteronomy, but modern scholars, especially from the 19th century onward, see them as being written hundreds of years after Moses is supposed to have lived, in the 6th and 5th centuries BC
Please explain how anyone in the 6th and 5th centuries BC could have known the lineage from Adam to Noah.
ElishaElijah
Return
Genealogy is recorded in the Scriptures, Jesus had to be in Davidic lineage as prophesied, one lineage is Joseph, one is Mary’s.
Why is 'remaining stationary' desirable? Shouldn't the Bible be corrected when edits, copy errors, mistranslations, &al are discovered? Wouldn't that be a good thing? Shoudn't, at least, the interpretations be amended?
What does "go too far to agree with science" mean? Does that mean interpreters shouldn't take historical, archaeological or linguistic facts into consideration when interpreting?
Isn't an interpretation an opinion? What should that opinion be based on? -- a personal agenda, divine inspiration, or facts, ie: the best current knowledge?
No! Not 'always right', more like "usually the best current understanding based on the most reliable, tangible evidence."
That's why scientific facts are always provisional, and why science is always looking for new evidence to clarify, test and improve it's interpretations.
The Big Picture rarely changes, it just becomes sharper as more pixels are added. This 'change' does not make the picture suspect or invalid.
If not scientific methodology, what methods do you advocate for judging, interpreting or testing religious scripture, or any writing, for that matter?
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ecco
Veteran Member
What point are you trying to make?
Science was wrong in believing that the planets orbited the sun in circular orbits. So what! Once the concept of Heliocentricity was established, the details became clearer with time.
Science was wrong in believing the universe was static. So what! Once the concept of a vast universe was established, the details became clearer with time.
It's called progress.
The Bible is a completely different animal.
The OT God makes a bunch of laws like kicking menstruating women out of the house and not eating lobster. He also says that the wood in a hitching post determines the spots on goats.
Instead of admitting His errors the OT God sends a piece of himself to earth to tell people they can eat lobster and the women can stay at home.
The hitching post story was never retracted. The concept that it's OK to steal is still intact.
ecco
Veteran Member
Except that "religion" is not the same for everyone. Half of all Christians still believe the Adam & Eve myth and reject evolution despite it being undeniable.
ElishaElijah
Return
If I said God made errors then I would be lying, if you’re saying He did then you don’t understand God or what He was communicating, are intentionally twisting what He said or meant.
Half of Christians still believe truth is dictated by authority rather than arrived at by critical analysis and testing of observed facts. They never learned to think. They're epistemic throwbacks.
ecco
Veteran Member
Perhaps you missed this...
Or, perhaps you found it impossible to address and decided to just ignore it.
As far as the accuracy of lineages and prophecies is concerned, you should read and try to understand...
You will see that there are many different versions and interpretations by people all trying desperately to turn myth into reality.
ElishaElijah
Return
Observable Fact: I was a drug addict and alcoholic, I cried out to God for His help, He answered and delivered me, saved me, filled me with His Spirit, opened my understanding to know Him and communicate with Him, changed me and gave me new desires and outlook.Half of Christians still believe truth is dictated by authority rather than arrived at by critical analysis and testing of observed facts. They never learned to think. They're epistemic throwbacks.
ElishaElijah
Return
Wikipedia? Lol God spoke to Moses and to the Prophets and told them what to write and record, and that’s how prophecy works as well.
ecco
Veteran Member
It is my understanding that your god commanded that women had to remain outside of the home during their menstrual cycle. Is my understanding wrong?
It is my understanding that your god commanded that his people not eat shellfish. Is my understanding wrong?
It is my understanding that women are now allowed to remain home during their menstrual cycle. Is my understanding wrong?
It is my understanding that people can now eat shellfish. Is my understanding wrong?
What am I twisting?
ElishaElijah
Return
And…Where’s the error?
Depends on which dating method you use. Carbon dating would give the date that the tree was cut down. Archeologists would understand both that the house was built after that and that older wood could be used in a new house, so that date would be regarded as the oldest the house could possibly be.
If you use the tree rings to date the wood, it would depend on which section of the wood is used for dating, but again, would be understood to be a maximum possible age for the house, not an exact age.
But, for example, if you have the date of the wood and a written report from some other date mentioning the house, you know the age of the house is between those two ages. Unless you have a specific record stating the exact date the house was completed, this is likely to be the best you can get.
This is why scientists tend to be cautious about their conclusions. They have learned by experience that there can be confounding factors that need to be taken into account. And, they do that to the best of their abilities.
One of the two rules is in error, right? They cannot both be correct.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Time is relative. From the perspective of God, who isn't inside time, the material used to form the world could be billions of years old while from the perspective of a person on the planet it could be actually only thosands.
As Edward FitzGerald's Omar Khayyam puts it ─
65, 4th edn.
The Revelations of Devout and Learn’d
Who rose before us, and as Prophets burn’d,
The Revelations of Devout and Learn’d
Who rose before us, and as Prophets burn’d,
Are all but Stories, which, awoke from Sleep
They told their comrades, and to Sleep return’d.No, but they arise in context much of the time.
Only in the "anything is possible" sense. That's why science, and many of us, use evidence to distinguish real things from things that only exist as concepts or in imagination.
Much of what you wrote is not observable.
We can observe that you were an addict and that you gave that up after a religious experience. Whether that religious experience was merely a subjective experience or a valid experience of a deity cannot be observed, even by you.