A proposed solution for Young Earth Creationism

[TagliatelliMonster]

What I find is a big disconnect between what people say is their moral compass and how they actually live in real life and apply that to their lives.

What I find is that people who say that tend to focus hard on the little things that people do wrong while ignoring or not noticing all the things they do right (or not wrong).

Having said that, what else is new?

Please don't act as if this is behavior (acting against ones own morals) is exclusive to atheists or secularists or humanists or any label. Including christians.

Let's not start about all the child abusing priests, shall we? And let's certainly not try and brush it off with a no-true-scottsman.

For example a person may say that infanticide is immoral yet when it comes down to getting a female pregnant and then providing for the child, abortion and killing that life is the choice made instead.

That is not even remotely in the league of infanticide and your pathetic attempt at changing the subject is noted.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That is not even remotely in the league of infanticide and your pathetic attempt at changing the subject is noted.

Yes it is, and not changing the subject you brought up about morality. So let’s talk about that, what about stealing and lying, we agree that these things are wrong, correct? Have you lied or stolen? If the answer is yes then tell me are you moral or immoral?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Let's not start about all the child abusing priests, shall we? And let's certainly not try and brush it off with a no-true-scottsman.

Let’s not talk about other people at all, how about we talk about ourselves and the way we live and apply our beliefs to our everyday lives in 2021.
I answered your questions about the genocide and infanticide you brought up and the conclusion is : No, I don’t agree with either one, my conclusion though is not that God is immoral because I know He is not. Then if God told you to would you and again my answer is no I wouldn’t because it wouldn’t be God talking, That goes against His Word and my conscience, I’m not going to murder anyone. I would have a hard time taking a life under any circumstance even if my life were in danger. That’s a situation I hope to never be in.
Now you brought up your morality and you seem to be running from that.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes it is, and not changing the subject you brought up about morality. So let’s talk about that, what about stealing and lying, we agree that these things are wrong, correct? Have you lied or stolen? If the answer is yes then tell me are you moral or immoral?

I already told you that I am not going to go in on a gish gallop. You are free to create a thread dedicated morality or pm if you wish to go into deeper detail with me alone.

You asked me where I get my morals from. I gave you a nutshell answer.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I answered your questions about the genocide and infanticide you brought up and the conclusion is : No, I don’t agree with either one, my conclusion though is not that God is immoral because I know He is not.

So then, if god engages in either one, then he is acting immorally but god himself is moral, so it's all right?

Is that what you're saying?
Or is genocide moral if it happens with god's permission, by virtue of it being his permission?

Then if God told you to would you and again my answer is no I wouldn’t because it wouldn’t be God talking,

This is a mega dodge of the hypothetical.
The hypothetical question is: IF GOD TOLD YOU TO. The answer can not be motivated by "...cause god didn't tell me to".

And it's not like god would never tell you to, since there are precedents in the bible where it is exactly what he told his followers to do. So at one time, he did tell people to .... According to the story anyway.

That goes against His Word and my conscience, I’m not going to murder anyone.

So when he ordered the complete and utter genocidal, infanticidal destruction of the Amalekites with the words "kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.", is that a fabrication then?

I would have a hard time taking a life under any circumstance even if my life were in danger. That’s a situation I hope to never be in.

Great.

Doesn't answer the questions though.

Now you brought up your morality and you seem to be running from that.

I'm not running. I already informed you that I would not enter your gish gallopping games, and certainly not in this thread as it would derail it completely, even more so then it already is.

I in fact invited you to dedicate its own thread to or even to PM me where you can ask me all the questions you like. That's the opposite of running.

 

[ecco]

For sure atrocities, Jesus Christ doesn’t commit atrocities ...
so I don’t worship a God who commits atrocities or immoral acts.

So you rationalize this by separating the God of the OT who did order such atrocities from the New Testament God - Jesus. My understanding of Christian beliefs is that GOD comprises God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Ghost. All one and the same.

So which of us is moral or immoral will be up to God. I don’t know how you live.

What we both do know is that you were accepting of the atrocities while I was the one condemning them. In this instance at least, my morality is on a much higher level than yours.

 

[ecco]

When someone starts comparing themselves to other people like this it seems like a self righteous kind of comment and question.

It has nothing to do with being self-righteous. It has to do with one of us (you) accepting atrocities committed by or on behalf of your god, and the other (me) condemning such acts.

It's an easy comparison. Present it to any civilized person and they will readily tell you that acceptance of atrocities is immoral.

Besides, self-righteousness is a religious thing. It's also known as holier than thou.




ETA: I just noticed this from another of you posts:

What I’m saying is God is not immoral, He is Holy, Righteous and Just in all His ways and has called me to live holy as well.

You just showed that you are the one who considers himself to be self-righteous.

 

[ecco]

Abortion? Critical Race Theory? Lying and half truths in media, Pornography? Dual Justice? The stealing and destruction of businesses in the cities? Illegal immigration? Men in women’s spa areas naked in front of women and young girls?

I'm with @TagliatelliMonster on this. Those topics do not belong in a Young Earth thread in the Evo/Crea forum.

So, please start a thread in North American Politics or General Discussion about these things.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So you rationalize this by separating the God of the OT who did order such atrocities from the New Testament God - Jesus. My understanding of Christian beliefs is that GOD comprises God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Ghost. All one and the same.

Yes and God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He doesn’t change so when you say God is immoral because of the vengeance He took I’m going to say I don’t agree.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You just showed that you are the one who considers himself to be self-righteous.

How so?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes and God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He doesn’t change so when you say God is immoral because of the vengeance He took I’m going to say I don’t agree.

So the genocide and infanticide that god commanded to be carried out against the amelakites, were morals acts then, in your opinion.

The indiscriminate killing of ALL babies, toddlers, children, women, the elderly,... even the cattle.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The indiscriminate killing of ALL babies, toddlers, children, women, the elderly,... even the cattle.

It wasn’t indiscriminate, God can do what He wants with His creation. I agree this is a hard situation to understand, We don’t have all the information. So no I’m not agreeing with you that God was immoral for wiping them out like He did and saving the virgin girls.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It wasn’t indiscriminate, God can do what He wants with His creation

I agree this is a hard situation to understand, We don’t have all the information. So no I’m not agreeing with you that God was immoral for wiping them out like He did and saving the virgin girls.

Once again: moral bankruptcy

 

[ElishaElijah]

Once again: moral bankruptcy

I believe we will see about that in the end. So I think we are done with that subject.

 

[ecco]

Yes and God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He doesn’t change so when you say God is immoral because of the vengeance He took I’m going to say I don’t agree.

Then why did you just use the term "Jesus" in the following?

For sure atrocities, Jesus Christ doesn’t commit atrocities and neither do I, so I don’t worship a God who commits atrocities or immoral acts.

It seemed to me you were trying to separate the nice God (Jesus) from the brutal God (the OT Guy who ordered the killing of boys and mothers).

 

[ecco]

You just showed that you are the one who considers himself to be self-righteous.

How so?

Did you forget you wrote...

What I’m saying is God is not immoral, He is Holy, Righteous and Just in all His ways and has called me to live holy as well.

 

[ecco]

We have strayed far from the topic of this thread. I am as responsible for this as anyone, perhaps more than others. Nevertheless, I'll not respond anymore on the subject of the immorality of the OT god.

RE: The OP...

I am a young-Earth creationist. What do you guys think about the idea that God created an aged universe, which is why we see evidence of a very old Earth.

Oh, well. I guess one could try to make the case that a god creating the universe 6000 years and making it look like it was billions of years old is immoral.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Then why did you just use the term "Jesus" in the following?

​

It seemed to me you were trying to separate the nice God (Jesus) from the brutal God (the OT Guy who ordered the killing of boys and mothers).

God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One. Jesus in Revelation isn’t as you put it “nice God”.

“Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭19:11-16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[ecco]

God the Father...

See post #397 above.

 

[ElishaElijah]

See post #397 above.

Yeah, thanks for the challenges and have a good one.