A proposed solution for Young Earth Creationism

[ElishaElijah]

Again, you really believing it, does not make it true.
Just like my friend's brother really believing it, does not make it true.

My living it and personal experience with God is a fact. Would be like me telling you you just believe you were born.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Actually, seems to me that @Jose Fly is backing out of the conversation because you are all over the place, except on point.
And he seems to think it's impossible to have a rational conversation with you about anything.

I can't say I really disagree.

Iran threatens the US with nukes has them pointed at us so we strike them first and take them out and you ask me if I would kill my neighbors if God told me to? Lol
Then you would say the US is immoral for protecting itself from the provocative nation.

 

[ElishaElijah]

you didn't answer his question.

He asked you if you would kill your neighbors if god asked you to.

He's not asking you if god is asking you to.
He's asking: IF god asks that off you, would you then do it?

How about you answer your own question and then after you answer I will invent a scenario to show how … you are or aren’t.

 

[Polymath257]

An equivalent scenario in today’s world would be similar to the leader of Israel praying and asking God what kind of military response they should make when their neighboring enemies have just threatened to wipe them out and bombed their cities not your kind of question.

Which sounds pretty silly, doesn't it?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Which sounds pretty silly, doesn't it?

Why would it be silly to pray?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Which sounds pretty silly, doesn't it?

No, sounds wise to seek the Living God for advice,

 

[ecco]

This is the account so where is the rape part, you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about because you weren’t there.

Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately.”​

​

Are you so naive that you do not understand the last sentence? Really?

Look at the context.

• God has just ordered killing every married woman - regardless of age. Twenty-year-old brides to seventy-year-old grandmothers. Kill 'em all.
• God has just ordered killing every male child - regardless of age. Teenagers, nine-year-olds, five-year-olds. Kill 'em all.
• But the young virgin girls - "keep alive for yourselves".

Keep alive to do what with? Servents? In that case, the boys would have been kept alive to do farming. No. They were given for one thing only - to be sex slaves for your god's victorious soldiers.

 

[Polymath257]

No, sounds wise to seek the Living God for advice,

If only we knew which one and knew it really does exist.

Yes, I know, people can be *absolutely sure* they know the 'correct God'. But, somehow, those who are absolutely sure of this don't seem to agree on the details. Almost as if they each have their own delusions.

 

[Polymath257]

Why would it be silly to pray?

As they say, pray with one hand and pour water in the other and see which fills up faster.

Prayer is usually worse than useless, given all the evidence I have seen.

 

[Polymath257]

Iran threatens the US with nukes has them pointed at us so we strike them first and take them out and you ask me if I would kill my neighbors if God told me to? Lol
Then you would say the US is immoral for protecting itself from the provocative nation.

I would certainly HOPE you would not kill simply because you think God is telling you to do so.

 

[Jose Fly]

Actually, seems to me that @Jose Fly is backing out of the conversation because you are all over the place, except on point.
And he seems to think it's impossible to have a rational conversation with you about anything.

I can't say I really disagree.

Bullseye! Since I've come back to RF, I've noticed the level of discourse has declined rather significantly. But I guess that kinda goes with the overall decline of message boards.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I would certainly HOPE you would not kill simply because you think God is telling you to do so.

Of course not, neither did Israel, the other nation wanted to though and it’s still like that today for them.

 

[Tiberius]

It does not justify it and I did not say it did.

So why haven't you once said, "God's instructions were wrong"?

Why just the virgins? Even the girls of Israel were supposed to be virgins before marriage.

So leave the ones that didn't follow the rules to die?

So are you saying they should have just been killed?
If not, what are you saying should have happened to them?

You don't actually believe those are the only two options, do you?

 

[ecco]

Opposed is not the same as discredited. Morality without God telling us is anything that we decide and there is nothing there that tells us it is better than God's morality.

Nonsense. Morality existed in all parts of the world long before word of your god ever got there. Perhaps you need to investigate what good Christians and Christian Schools did to saavage native american children "in the name of God".

You also need to realize that many people took to the Bible to justify the owning of slaves.

How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery

During the period of American slavery, how did slaveholders manage to balance their religious beliefs with the cruel facts of the “peculiar institution“? As shown by the following passages — adapted from Noel Rae’s new book The Great Stain, which uses firsthand accounts to tell the story of slavery in America — for some of them that rationalization was right there in the Bible.​

Note the word "rationalizing". You do a lot of that.

In most cases it is easy to defend what God did and ordered in the OT times. It is a matter of looking at the context of who God is and was in relation to the Israelites and to the nations that God was judging and kicking out of their land in most cases and giving to the Israelites.

So, your god was just the god of the "Israelites and to the nations that God was judging". He wasn't the god of Africans or Chinese or Hawaiians. That's understandable, the people who wrote the stories in your bible never knew Africa or China or Hawaii existed. A god would have known that and that would have been reflected in the Bible. That knowledge is not there which provides much evidence that the scriptures were written by mortal men just like you and me. Men who new nothing outside of their little world.

In reality it is non believers accusing God of things that God is not guilty of just because non believers don't seem to want to consider the context.

First off, in reality, we don't blame "God" because we know that "God" doesn't exist. We blame the people who committed the atrocities and pretended that they were doing God's work. We blame people who believe these outrageous stories because they have used the same God and the same stories to justify other atrocities throughout the ages. When I say "your god ordered the killing of young boys", I am, in reality, saying the role model that you and so many others worship is credited with the killing of young boys and you and many others support this. You do this by rationalizing about "context". The context is very clear, people who wanted to start a new religion, wanted their god to be feared. Fear is a great motivator. It was then and it is now.

“The Lord takes pleasure in those who fear Him…” (Psalm 147:11). Joshua encouraged the people to “fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness” (Joshua 24:14). (Rev 14:7) Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
​

The biggest fear driven into the minds of those being indoctrinated is the fear of eternal damnation.

 

[ecco]

Are you saying that in that war it would have been better to kill the girls also instead of letting them live as wives and servants amongst the Israelites?

Better? Let the women live. Let the boys and the virgin girls go to live with the women. All can go to live with the surviving soldiers and the older men.

That is what civilized nations do at the end of wars. The United States, England, and France did not kill captured soldiers when WWII ended. We did not kill the young German, Italian, or Japanese boys and their mothers. We did not distribute the virgins among our victorious troops.

Please show anywhere in all your scripture where it deals with "the spoils of war" in a civilized manner.

ETA: If you can't, perhaps you could just admit that the atrocities committed were wrong.

 

[Tiberius]

“Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.””
‭‭John‬ ‭20:1-2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Where does it say Mary is alone by herself with no one else?

It says, "Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early," and not "Mary Magdalene and a bunch of other people who we aren't bothering to mention because who cares went to the tomb early."

When she runs to tell Peter she says we do not know where they laid Him. So she wasn’t alone.

Or maybe the "we" bit is the bit that is wrong.

And let me remind you that after that passage, Mary runs back to tell Peter who is with another disciple, and then they ALL run back to the tomb. The other disciple (who had been with Peter, so not any companion of Mary's) looked in first, but he didn't go inside, and then Peter went inside and saw the cloths but no Jesus. The Peter and the disciple that had been with him the whole time just get up and head back home.

Now, at this point, assuming you are correct, we can assume this hypothetical companion or companions of Mary are still with her. After all, if she had gone to Peter by herself and said, "We," then he would have said, "What 'we', you're by yourself." So any alleged companions of Mary's must have been with her at that time. And then the Bible states that the ALL, go back to the tomb. And after taking a peek inside, Peter and his companion head off, so we can conclude that Mary and her alleged companions remain. And yet, throughout ALL of this, these alleged companions are never mentioned.

So it's far more likely that the "we" is the error.

There are also lots of other inconsistencies. For example, in John, Mary finds the stone already moved, she goes and finds the tomb empty, she goes and tells Peter, then they all go back, Peter and his buddy say, "Whatever," and head home, Mary stays behind, chat's a bit with two angels, and is sad until Jesus appears. Yet, in Matthew, Mary and Mary go to the tomb, see the stone get rolled away before their eyes, and then get told that Jesus is alive by ONE angel. Jesus doesn't appear to her until after she leaves the tomb.

So, a few questions:

• When Mary got to the tomb, was the stone already rolled back, or was it moved only once she had arrived?
• Did Mary run off to get others and then return to the tomb before the Angel/angels appeared, or, or did it all happen during the one visit?
• How many angels were there, one or two?
• Did Jesus appear to her at the tomb, or did he appear to her when she was on her way back?

 

[Tiberius]

A religion is a belief system. Atheism certainly qualifies.

So a religion is ANY belief system?

Is my belief that the sun will rise tomorrow a religion? Does a Christian Star Trek fan have two religions (you completely avoided this question the last time I asked it.)

 

[ecco]

An equivalent scenario in today’s world would be similar to the leader of Israel praying and asking God what kind of military response they should make when their neighboring enemies have just threatened to wipe them out and bombed their cities not your kind of question.

I guess they didn't ask your god. They didn't wipe out the Palestinian men and kill the Palestinian women and boys and keep the Palestinian virgins for their soldiers to make use of. Either that or your god is not as protective of the Hebrews as he supposedly once was.

Seems like the nations today could care less when Israel’s neighbors threaten to wipe them out (genocide). You seem fine with that, same thing was happening to Israel in Moses day in Numbers. Not once have you mentioned the potential genocide of Israel by the other nations, you seem sympathetic to them.

Kruschev vowed to bury the United States. Should we have preemptively attacked Russia with the massive amount of nukes we had at the time? You seem to want to put "potential genocide" into the same bucket as actual genocide.

One firly recent attempted genocide was committed by Christian Serbs against Serbian Muslims.

Srebrenica massacre - Wikipedia

The Srebrenica massacre (Bosnian: Masakr u Srebrenici / Масакр у Сребреници), also known as the Srebrenica genocide[7] (Bosnian: Genocid u Srebrenici / Геноцид у Сребреници), was the July 1995 genocide[8] of more than 8,000[1][9] Bosniak Muslim men and boys in and around the town of Srebrenica, during the Bosnian War.[10]
The killings were perpetrated by units of the Bosnian Serb Army of Republika Srpska (VRS) under the command of Ratko Mladić.
​

Do you believe your god instructed Mladic or President Karadzik to commit the genocide?

 

[ecco]

then Peter went inside and saw the cloths but no Jesus

So, a few questions:

I raise my hand and wave it furiously...I have a question - I have a question: Was Jesus walking around nakkid?

 

[ecco]

A religion is a belief system. Atheism certainly qualifies.

Does your disbelief of Santa Claus constitute a religion?
Does your disbelief of Green Leprechauns constitute a religion?
Does your disbelief of Psychic snowflakes constitute a religion?

Think.