A Proof that God Exists

[godnotgod]

The logical evidence that nothing can cause itself to exist. Since every thing has been caused by something else that preceded it, we are on the road to prove the concept of genetic causality. I am not asking for the true nature of things but for the Logic of genetic causality. If you had asked Albert Einstein about Quantum Physics, he would have told you that it was the same as poppycock. He said that he would not waste a day of his life with Quantum Physics.

And I am telling you that Causation is poppycock. When you narrowly focus on one event, it only appears to have been caused by another event. But when you look at the whole picture all at once, we find that all things co-arise simultaneously and interconnectedly. All such 'things', or events, are already interconnected. Taken as a whole, nothing has changed.

Einstein was wrong.

 

[godnotgod]

godnotgod said: ↑
Which simply means that such a God is merely a projection of the ego.

If you like. From Buddhist point of view, that is true. Realistically, no. It just means our beliefs are shaped by our culture, who we are, how we are raised, yourself included.

Beliefs derived from our culture, ie; social indoctrination, are what comprise the ego, which projects an idea of God onto some idea of 'other'. This is what is known in psychology as 'Idolatrous Love', one of the Five Egotistical States. The Buddhist experience is to awaken from this social indoctrination, called 'Identification', to see things as they actually are, and not as social learning and knowledge dictate they are. The 'Buddhist point of view' is a Universal unconditioned View, that is no particular view at all, whereas beliefs are a personal conditioned view.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You know when you see a wheel spinning, that at some point, it appears to be standing still, or even going backwards?

Yes?...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

godnotgod said: ↑
Which simply means that such a God is merely a projection of the ego.



Beliefs derived from our culture, ie; social indoctrination, are what comprise the ego, which projects an idea of God onto some idea of 'other'.

This is what is known in psychology as 'Idolatrous Love', one of the Five Egotistical States.

The Buddhist experience is to awaken from this social indoctrination, called 'Identification', to see things as they actually are, and not as social learning and knowledge dictate they are.

The 'Buddhist point of view' is a Universal unconditioned View, that is no particular view at all, whereas beliefs are a personal conditioned view.

How does this strengthen your opinion? Regardless of what you call it (illusions ec) and what you attribute it to (ie.. god. Nature. Mind) its still the same. Your views are determined by your culture, how you were raised, environment etc

Whether what you say is fact or opinion, I cant tell unless you step away from metaphysic terms, buddhism, and god-concepts and speak in simple terms.

Its like telling me how two and two is four in german and even though I understand the math, you can break up a thousand times but if you dont speak in english (the language) so I know your point, I will not get it

 

[godnotgod]

Yes?...

Well, that is, or is similar to, what is called a standing wave:

"When two or more complementary traveling waves of space interact, they form a standing wave. Standing waves are stationary or standing vibrations that travel in a cyclical path within a confined region."

standing waves | Quantum Wave Theory

IOW, it is an illusion. Are you with me so far?

 

[godnotgod]

How does this strengthen your opinion? Regardless of what you call it (illusions ec) and what you attribute it to (ie.. god. Nature. Mind) its still the same. Your views are determined by your culture, how you were raised, environment etc

Whether what you say is fact or opinion, I cant tell unless you step away from metaphysic terms, buddhism, and god-concepts and speak in simple terms.

Its like telling me how two and two is four in german and even though I understand the math, you can break up a thousand times but if you dont speak in english (the language) so I know your point, I will not get it

OK. Do you know the difference between thinking up concepts about reality, and seeing reality as it actually is?

 

[Deeje]

Two laws we cannot escape or dodge.....scientifically proven.

1. "All life comes from pre-existing life". Life is always the cause of more life. Life cannot spontaneously pop into into existence by itself.

2. "Cause and effect". Whatever effect we see, has a cause. Nothing comes from nothing.

There is I believe a great 'first cause' of everything. Just because humans have not developed a test to establish his existence, doesn't mean that God isn't there. Just as they have never established a true test for macro-evolution......yet they believe it happened all those millions of years ago when no one was around to witness any of it.

I guess it all depends on what you want to believe.....

 

[Deeje]

Every time I read a "proof of god," it just makes god-belief look more and more foolish.

You think God cares about how he looks to unbelievers? Really?

You know what they say about he who laughs last?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, that is, or is similar to, what is called a standing wave:

"When two or more complementary traveling waves of space interact, they form a standing wave. Standing waves are stationary or standing vibrations that travel in a cyclical path within a confined region."

standing waves | Quantum Wave Theory

IOW, it is an illusion. Are you with me so far?

The illusion part, yes. Im still stuck on how does this relate to god and my saying an atom is a combination of protons, electrons, and neutrons.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

OK. Do you know the difference between thinking up concepts about reality, and seeing reality as it actually is?

Yes. Im trying to connect it to the overall point. How does this relate to god and/or my saying an atom is a combination of parts.

Thats right, also how does this relate to having a cause for the universe? Cant remember if that was this thread or not.

 

[Milton Platt]

A PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS.

According to Moses Maimonides, a Philosopher, Theologian and Medical Doctor in his book "The Guide for the Perplexed," there would be no need for a Creator if the universe was eternal, without beginning or end. In other words, God would not exist. However, if the universe did have a beginning,God by necessity would exist.

From Abraham and until Aristotle God existed only for the pious who could exercise faith. For Cosmologists God had only been a probability, extremely small nevertheless a probability. At the time of Aristotle that small probability had been erased as Aristotle discovered that the universe was eternal; no beginning and no end. The pious went on with their faith but as Science was concerned, the non-existence of God had been proved. The line of thought that God's existence was depending on the universe having had a beginning lasted from about 330 BCE with Aristotle and until 1922 ACE with George Lemaitre, a Catholic priest who brought the news about the Big Bang to the whole world as the beginning of the universe.

Cosmologists throughout the world had to adopt Lemaitre's discovery as the nearest approach to the truth they had ever achieved. Now, since the universe had indeed a beginning, a proof had be established for the existence of God, blessed be He!

Why does a god have to exist if the universe as we know it had a beginning? that does not mean that matter and/or energy did not preexist the universe. And even if literally everything had a beginning that does not get you to a god......You have to first demonstrate it's existence, and then you have to demonstrate that it can create universes.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Oh? How do you know that? I know! A little birdie told you so, didn't he? You little devil, you!

To know God is to know His attributes and one of His attributes is love and He loves all humanity believer or non believer, saint or sinner it doesn't matter as He created us all and wants what is best for all of us.

We are both humanity and both equal in the sight of God. Neither of us is superior.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How do you personally know that?

If Bahai (right?) respect and in a sense believe in the worlds major faith, why would you consider those with god veiled with self?

Have you met other religious that are outside the major world religions who do not believe god and are not veiled with self?

Thats making a bold claim to peoples faith that have no god in it whatsoever.

Baha'u'llah, in a most beautiful Tablet to be said in times of grief and sorrow has proclaimed..

"Verily this is that Most Great Beauty, foretold in the Books of the Messengers, through Whom truth shall be distinguished from error and the wisdom of every command shall be tested. Verily He is the Tree of Life that bringeth forth the fruits of God, the Exalted, the Powerful, the Great.

Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turns away from this Beauty hath also turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity."

Rely upon God, thy God and the Lord of thy fathers. For the people are wandering in the paths of delusion, bereft of discernment to see God with their own eyes, or hear His Melody with their own ears. Thus have We found them, as thou also dost witness.

Thus have their superstitions become veils between them and their own hearts and kept them from the path of God, the Exalted, the Great.

Here is the link to the complete Tablet

Tablet of Ahmad

I love the last verse of this wonderful Tablet.....

By God! Should one who is in affliction or grief read this Tablet with absolute sincerity, God will dispel his sadness, solve his difficulties and remove his afflictions. - Baha'u'llah

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Baha'u'llah, in a most beautiful Tablet to be said in times of grief and sorrow has proclaimed..

"Verily this is that Most Great Beauty, foretold in the Books of the Messengers, through Whom truth shall be distinguished from error and the wisdom of every command shall be tested. Verily He is the Tree of Life that bringeth forth the fruits of God, the Exalted, the Powerful, the Great.

Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turns away from this Beauty hath also turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity."

Rely upon God, thy God and the Lord of thy fathers. For the people are wandering in the paths of delusion, bereft of discernment to see God with their own eyes, or hear His Melody with their own ears. Thus have We found them, as thou also dost witness.

Thus have their superstitions become veils between them and their own hearts and kept them from the path of God, the Exalted, the Great.



Here is the link

Tablet of Ahmad

I love the last verse of this wonderful Tablet.....

By God! Should one who is in affliction or grief read this Tablet with absolute sincerity, God will dispel his sadness, solve his difficulties and remove his afflictions. - Baha'u'llah

What does Baha'u'llah words have to do with another person's individual spiritual journey that only he and he only knows whether he is spiritual veiled or not?

How can you tell John's heart based on what Baha'u'llah written without asking John himself and going by John's views not Baha'u'llah and not your own?

 

[loverofhumanity]

...and you have developed your spiritual capacities and can see and know God?

I was wrapped in a thousand veils refusing to see or hear.

Now I find myself endowed with "a new eye, a new ear, a new heart, and a new mind leading to absolute certitude"

 

[godnotgod]

There is I believe a great 'first cause' of everything.

Two questions:

1. 'Something' had to be a cause of the First Cause. What was it?

2. Why do you 'believe' there was a 'great first cause' of everything?

 

[godnotgod]

I was wrapped in a thousand veils refusing to see or hear.

Now I find myself endowed with "a new eye, a new ear, a new heart, and a new mind leading to absolute certitude"

So before that occurred, you were wrapped up in self, and God was some 'other', correct?

And now after your 'transformation', what is the status between you and God?

 

[godnotgod]

The illusion part, yes. Im still stuck on how does this relate to god and my saying an atom is a combination of protons, electrons, and neutrons.

No worries...we'll get to that.

So I take your answer as 'yes', you understand how standing waves can create the illusion that a spinning wheel is standing still.

Well, Quantum Physics,( which is science, and it appears that you respect the findings of science), says that what we used to think of as solid particles, are in actuality, standing waves. The way I was saying it was that all of the mass of the atom is being created and recreated millions of times a second via energy fluctuations in the Quantum and Higgs Fields. IOW, a 'particle' is the product of energy fluctuations in the surrounding field, that create standing waves which only appear to be a particle. These are not real particles, but are virtual particles, acting 'as if' they are real, in somewhat the same way that standing waves make it appear as if the spinning wheel is standing still.

Still on board?

 

[godnotgod]

Yes. Im trying to connect it to the overall point. How does this relate to god and/or my saying an atom is a combination of parts.

Thats right, also how does this relate to having a cause for the universe? Cant remember if that was this thread or not.

I am simply trying to make it clear to you within the context of the discussion, that there exists a view that is not a personal view; not one influenced by culture and social indoctrination. All personal views are conditioned views about Reality. This other view to which I am alluding is unconditioned. Are you aware that such a view exists?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I trudged through 10 pages an all I got was this lousy Kalams cosmological argument.

Thread title= false advertising. I should call the BBB.