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A new theory for the creation of the universe.

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later.

What would become to be known as day one, It is probable that He created the heavens and the earth and furnished light from Himself to set up day and night.

It seems to reason that He then made the firmament which separated the waters above it from the waters below and called that day two.

It could have happened on the third day when the waters below the firmament gathered together and for dry land to appear which He called earth. The best estimate is the earth brought forth vegetation, plants and trees bearing fruit after their kind.

On the fourth day, He created lights in the expanse to separate day from night and these were made to give light on earth. The great light, the sun, was to govern the day and the lesser light, the moon, was to govern the night. Up until this event, there was no mechanism for measuring time, IOW, there was no time dimension, now it is in place and waiting for intelligence to measure it. This belief is based on much circumstantial evidence that seems to support this view.

It is likely that He created the creatures in the waters and the birds of the sky on the fifth day. He commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, each after its own kind.

Most think it was day six when He created the living creatures on the earth, each after its own kind. Then He created man in His own image, male and female and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the fish, the birds and over every living creature that moves on the earth.

Even though day four saw a mechanism put in place for measuring time, it was not until day six after the universe was created that there was an instrument, intelligence, to measure time. Most seem to agree with this theory.

There is a difference of opinion on exactly what point the laws of nature were created, some believing it was day one and others think it more likely to be day four.

Since God is outside of time and it means nothing to Him, He had a purpose for using six days, in man’s time frame, for the creation.


“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.” (Exodus 20:9–11, NASB95)


Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.

I have tried to use a methodlogy used by science in presenting this new theory.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
You are starting from a desired beginning and moving forward. Science starts in the present with what is seen and tries to follow the trail back as far as possible. The trail is the difference.
 

corynski

Reality First!
Premium Member
Why would anyone believe such a bunch of nonsense in the 21st century? For openers you're assuming a 'god' was the impetus to creation, so would you enlighten us as to where such a 'god' might have come from. Perhaps a momma goddess and a poppa god out there somewhere? And you have read all the book you're referring to I assume..... which to me reads like a manual for genocide. Research the concept of the 'ban'....... And even 'god' gets involved in the killing by throwing down chunks of ice on the Amalakites or someone I think I remember. Is it any more absurd to consider that possibly the universe has ALWAYS EXISTED? And there never was a 'creation'? That there are no devils or angels or trolls or unicorns. Time to come back to reality folks.......
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
You are starting from a desired beginning and moving forward. Science starts in the present with what is seen and tries to follow the trail back as far as possible. The trail is the difference.

Science starts in the present with a desired ending.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later.

What would become to be known as day one, It is probable that He created the heavens and the earth and furnished light from Himself to set up day and night.

It seems to reason that He then made the firmament which separated the waters above it from the waters below and called that day two.

It could have happened on the third day when the waters below the firmament gathered together and for dry land to appear which He called earth. The best estimate is the earth brought forth vegetation, plants and trees bearing fruit after their kind.

On the fourth day, He created lights in the expanse to separate day from night and these were made to give light on earth. The great light, the sun, was to govern the day and the lesser light, the moon, was to govern the night. Up until this event, there was no mechanism for measuring time, IOW, there was no time dimension, now it is in place and waiting for intelligence to measure it. This belief is based on much circumstantial evidence that seems to support this view.

It is likely that He created the creatures in the waters and the birds of the sky on the fifth day. He commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, each after its own kind.

Most think it was day six when He created the living creatures on the earth, each after its own kind. Then He created man in His own image, male and female and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the fish, the birds and over every living creature that moves on the earth.

Even though day four saw a mechanism put in place for measuring time, it was not until day six after the universe was created that there was an instrument, intelligence, to measure time. Most seem to agree with this theory.

There is a difference of opinion on exactly what point the laws of nature were created, some believing it was day one and others think it more likely to be day four.

Since God is outside of time and it means nothing to Him, He had a purpose for using six days, in man’s time frame, for the creation.


“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.” (Exodus 20:9–11, NASB95)


Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.

I have tried to use a methodlogy used by science in presenting this new theory.

Science would require you to provide validation for each one of your statements. Belief in the supernatural doesn't have such requirements.

You can have a theory about how the universe came about, then you need to find some evidence to support your theory and develop an hypothesis. From there you have to prove there's no other possible explanation to get folks to start accepting it as fact.

With supernatural you can imagine up any explanation you wish without worrying about evidence or proving other explanations false. However probably shouldn't have any expectations of someone else accepting your theory. They could I suppose but they could as well imagine up their own explanation of how the universe started.

You say God, I say a pink, no blue fairy created the universe. Lets make it a blue haired fairy riding a white tiger.
upload_2017-8-14_17-36-36.jpeg


My explanation, I believe in the supernatural.
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
would you enlighten us as to where such a 'god' might have come from.

Be glad to, just as soon as you enlighten me where, when and how, space, matter, energy and time came into existence, can you do that. Oh yeah, I would expect to see empirical scientific evidence for your answer.
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
"micro seconds, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, light years" What is required to be in place before those can be measured? IF, there is no intelligence to measure it, is it really there and if so, how can you prove it? Can you provide a link(s) that explains about "time" when it is not in the context of measuring it or explaining how to measure it?

"Efforts to understand time below the Planck scale have led to an exceedingly strange juncture in physics. The problem, in brief, is that time may not exist at the most fundamental level of physical reality."
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
Science would require you to provide validation for each one of your statements.

My entire point, science cannot validate where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence. Just like those of us that believe in the supernatural, God, we cannot prove when, where and how God came into existence. Using the scriptures as they are written has an explanation as to how the universe came into existence, science does not.

With supernatural you can imagine up any explanation you wish

Not true, we can only use what is written.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later.

What would become to be known as day one, It is probable that He created the heavens and the earth and furnished light from Himself to set up day and night.

It seems to reason that He then made the firmament which separated the waters above it from the waters below and called that day two.

It could have happened on the third day when the waters below the firmament gathered together and for dry land to appear which He called earth. The best estimate is the earth brought forth vegetation, plants and trees bearing fruit after their kind.

On the fourth day, He created lights in the expanse to separate day from night and these were made to give light on earth. The great light, the sun, was to govern the day and the lesser light, the moon, was to govern the night. Up until this event, there was no mechanism for measuring time, IOW, there was no time dimension, now it is in place and waiting for intelligence to measure it. This belief is based on much circumstantial evidence that seems to support this view.

It is likely that He created the creatures in the waters and the birds of the sky on the fifth day. He commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, each after its own kind.

Most think it was day six when He created the living creatures on the earth, each after its own kind. Then He created man in His own image, male and female and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the fish, the birds and over every living creature that moves on the earth.

Even though day four saw a mechanism put in place for measuring time, it was not until day six after the universe was created that there was an instrument, intelligence, to measure time. Most seem to agree with this theory.

There is a difference of opinion on exactly what point the laws of nature were created, some believing it was day one and others think it more likely to be day four.

Since God is outside of time and it means nothing to Him, He had a purpose for using six days, in man’s time frame, for the creation.


“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.” (Exodus 20:9–11, NASB95)


Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.

I have tried to use a methodlogy used by science in presenting this new theory.
Basic problem is that there is unambiguous evidence that the age of the earth is 4.5 billion years and the age of the current universe is 13.8 billion years. So, your theory, where earth was created on day 1 is falsified.
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
unambiguous evidence that the age of the earth is 4.5 billion years and the age of the current universe is 13.8 billion years.
Really? Can you provide evidence that states those figures are indisputable facts? How is that time measured? What happens to your theory if there was no time dimension before the sun and intelligence to measure it? Unless, you can prove there was, can you?

"The possibility that time may not exist is known among physicists as the “problem of time.”"
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I have tried to use a methodlogy used by science in presenting this new theory.

Really? How does it fit with General Relativity? Quantum Mechanics? How does your theory square with the cosmic background radiation? How about galactic red-shifts?

You claim a scientific methodology, but I see nothing at all close to such. Instead I see you attempting to rewrite a Biblical narrative.
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
You claim a scientific methodology

"In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later."

Apparently, some are so accustomed to seeing phrases like these used in "science" that they completely overlook them. :)
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later.

What would become to be known as day one, It is probable that He created the heavens and the earth and furnished light from Himself to set up day and night.

It seems to reason that He then made the firmament which separated the waters above it from the waters below and called that day two.

It could have happened on the third day when the waters below the firmament gathered together and for dry land to appear which He called earth. The best estimate is the earth brought forth vegetation, plants and trees bearing fruit after their kind.

On the fourth day, He created lights in the expanse to separate day from night and these were made to give light on earth. The great light, the sun, was to govern the day and the lesser light, the moon, was to govern the night. Up until this event, there was no mechanism for measuring time, IOW, there was no time dimension, now it is in place and waiting for intelligence to measure it. This belief is based on much circumstantial evidence that seems to support this view.

It is likely that He created the creatures in the waters and the birds of the sky on the fifth day. He commanded them to be fruitful and multiply, each after its own kind.

Most think it was day six when He created the living creatures on the earth, each after its own kind. Then He created man in His own image, male and female and commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and to rule over the fish, the birds and over every living creature that moves on the earth.

Even though day four saw a mechanism put in place for measuring time, it was not until day six after the universe was created that there was an instrument, intelligence, to measure time. Most seem to agree with this theory.

There is a difference of opinion on exactly what point the laws of nature were created, some believing it was day one and others think it more likely to be day four.

Since God is outside of time and it means nothing to Him, He had a purpose for using six days, in man’s time frame, for the creation.


“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.” (Exodus 20:9–11, NASB95)


Therefore, unless man can provide a provable explanation, using empirical evidence, of where, when and how space, matter, energy and time came into existence and in what sequence, I choose to believe in the supernatural.

I have tried to use a methodlogy used by science in presenting this new theory.

The only part I really disagree with is that this is a new theory, it is becoming ever more validated by science (the method) but I don't think you can take credit for it! :)
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
"In the beginning, before anything known to mankind existed, there was a supernatural, intelligent being that created the universe. It is thought that He first created space and then He created matter. It is likely that He supplied the energy from Himself to create the universe. The belief is there was no time dimension at this point and He could have created everything instantaneously but He chose to do it in steps to serve His purpose which was to set days, weeks, months and years for the people He would create later."

Apparently, some are so accustomed to seeing phrases like these used in "science" that they completely overlook them. :)

Not at all. But in science those phrases are backed up with evidence from similar or related areas. The 'beliefs' are based on descriptions consistent with well-established science.

What you did is made up a story with no connection to known science whatsoever. No basis in GR or QM. No basic in particle theory. Nothing except your imagination. That *isn't* how science does their speculation, even if that's what it looks like from your perspective.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Really? Can you provide evidence that states those figures are indisputable facts? How is that time measured? What happens to your theory if there was no time dimension before the sun and intelligence to measure it? Unless, you can prove there was, can you?

"The possibility that time may not exist is known among physicists as the “problem of time.”"

The age of the universe


They figured this out by observing a type of supernova, the explosion of a star at the end of its life. Type 1a supernovae explode with uniform brightness, and light travels at a constant speed. By observing several different Type 1a supernovae, the scientists were able to calculate their distance from the Earth and how long the light took to get here.

“Supernovae are used to determine how fast the universe is expanding around us,” Riess says. “And by looking at very distant supernovae that exploded in the past and whose light has taken a long time to reach us, we can also see how the expansion rate has recently been changing.”

Using this method, scientists have estimated the age of the universe to be around 13.3 billion years.


Another way to estimate the age of the universe is by using the cosmic microwave background, radiation left over from just after the big bang that extends in every direction.

“The CMB tells you the initial conditions and the recipe of the early universe—what kinds of stuff it had in it,” Riess says. “And if we understand that well enough, in principle, we can predict how fast the universe made that stuff with those initial conditions and how the universe would expand at different points in the future.”

Using NASA’s Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe, scientists created a detailed map of the minute temperature fluctuations in the CMB. They then compared the fluctuation pattern with different theoretical models of the universe that predict patterns of CMB. In 2003 they found a match.

“Using these comparisons, we have been able to figure out the shape of the universe, the density of the universe and its components,” Kuo says. WMAP found that ordinary matter makes up about 4 percent of the universe; dark matter is about 23 percent; and the remaining 73 percent is dark energy. Using the WMAP data, scientists estimated the age of the universe to be 13.772 billion years, plus or minus 59 million years.

In 2013, the European Space Agency’s Planck space telescope created an even more detailed map of the CMB temperature fluctuations and estimated the universe to be 13.82 billion years old, plus or minus 50 million years—slightly older than WMAP’s estimate. Planck also made more detailed measurements of the components of the universe and found slightly less dark energy (around 68 percent) and slightly more dark matter (around 27 percent).

Age of the earth

How Old is Earth?

Research groups in Australia found the oldest mineral grains on Earth. These tiny zirconium silicate crystals have ages that reach 4.3 billion years, making them the oldest materials found on Earth so far. Their source rocks have not yet been found.

The rocks and zircons set a lower limit on the age of Earth of 4.3 billion years, because the planet itself must be older than anything that lies on its surface.

Meet the neighbors
In an effort to further refine the age of Earth, scientists began to look outward. The material that formed the solar system was a cloud of dust and gas that surrounded the young sun. Gravitational interactions coalesced this material into the planets and moons at roughly the same time. By studying other bodies in the solar system, scientists are able to find out more about the early historyof the planet.

The nearest body to Earth, the moon, does not suffer from the resurfacing problems that cover Earth's landscape. As such, rocks from early lunar history should be present on the moon. Samples returned from the Apollo and Luna missions revealed ages between 4.4 and 4.5 billion years, helping to constrain the age of Earth.


There are small uncertainties in all scientific measures, but there is overwhelming evidence based on observations that the universe is 3 times older than the earth. Universe around 13.8 billion years and earth around 4.5 billion years.


Of course science relies on the assumption that the natural world, when carefully observed, provides reliable evidence regarding the nature of reality. Success of science in explaining and predicting natural phenomena and developing technology provides evidence that this assumption is a good one. But if you deny this, there is nothing to be said.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Why would anyone believe such a bunch of nonsense in the 21st century? For openers you're assuming a 'god' was the impetus to creation, so would you enlighten us as to where such a 'god' might have come from. Perhaps a momma goddess and a poppa god out there somewhere? And you have read all the book you're referring to I assume..... which to me reads like a manual for genocide. Research the concept of the 'ban'....... And even 'god' gets involved in the killing by throwing down chunks of ice on the Amalakites or someone I think I remember. Is it any more absurd to consider that possibly the universe has ALWAYS EXISTED? And there never was a 'creation'? That there are no devils or angels or trolls or unicorns. Time to come back to reality folks.......

I think science does believe the universe had a start a beginning.
God as Creator is everlasting according to Psalms 90:2. No beginning for God.
Just as we can count endlessly both forwards and backwards without reaching an ending point.
Also, I find Scripture agrees with science in that according to Isaiah 40:26 God used His 'power and strength' ( His dynamic energy ) to create the material realm of our existence.
 

corynski

Reality First!
Premium Member
Be glad to, just as soon as you enlighten me where, when and how, space, matter, energy and time came into existence, can you do that. Oh yeah, I would expect to see empirical scientific evidence for your answer.

My point exactly, we don't know that they did, they could have always existed, just like your alleged deity.






Be glad to, just as soon as you enlighten me where, when and how, space, matter, energy and time came into existence, can you do that. Oh yeah, I would expect to see empirical scientific evidence for your answer.

What you have mentioned above are all observable and measurable by a scientific method, but your deity isn't. And won't show up..... What has convinced you that a god exists?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Basic problem is that there is unambiguous evidence that the age of the earth is 4.5 billion years and the age of the current universe is 13.8 billion years. So, your theory, where earth was created on day 1 is falsified.

I find ALL of the 6 creative days are summed up by the word ' day ' at Genesis 2:4
So, in Bible speak, the word day has shades of meaning. Just as we might speak of grandfather's day or time frame.
There is nothing in Genesis that tells us even if each of the creative days are of the same or of differing lengths of time.
Agree, Earth was Not created on Day One because Genesis is about getting the already existing Earth ready for mankind to inhabit Earth.
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
My point exactly, we don't know that they did, they could have always existed, just like your alleged deity.

Good, you answered your own question. Although your answer differs from some other Genesis deniers in the the group.
 
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