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A new look at Jesus

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by wellwisher, May 19, 2022.

  1. wellwisher

    wellwisher Well-Known Member

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    This idea came to me the other day. The life and death of Jesus had an implication that is not often discussed. It has to do with the son of God, being killed by humans. Conceptually, if it had been a different time and place, where people were peaceful, and enough had accepted Jesus, he could have used his powers to help humanity. He could have made life on earth, better, than the historical result. Instead, humans killed the free ride, in an attempt to maintain a lower state of being.

    This scenario is not very common in the world's religions. In almost all religions, gods or the wiseman, were there to help/hurt/teach with the humans accepting their place in the pecking order. Christianity may be the only religion, still in existence, where humans slay a top level god. They eat the seed potato, celebrated, had a big party, but the next day there was no seed potato, for the next year's harvest and beyond; short sighted.

    The rest of the Bible story does have Jesus making a come back, to give it a second try; second coming. But this time, he is dressed for war and ready to kick butt. His is prepared to not let the lower levels, have the final say. The first time, when he was nice, too many humans had no respect, and they were able to slay a treasure.

    In the second coming, the low life will up their slaying game with Satan, the Anti-Christ and False Prophet at the helm. They will take out the Saints; eat all the wheat seeds. But this ends differently, as the first fruits are harvested.
     
    #1 wellwisher, May 19, 2022
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
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  2. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    He showed humanity how to be perfectly human, who we are capable of becoming and living, through His own life as the perfect model.
     
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  3. Luchito Prays

    Luchito Prays Member

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    What was not possible for religious people in his times, he made it happen.

    Regardless of what, he obeyed the word of the God.

    He passed the test.

    It was necessary this step, because for us is very easy to use the excuse that we are humans, and we were made imperfect.

    So, he had a human body like everyone else, and he made it.

    Look at Moses, He acquired more than a shinning face, legends say he became taller, like 15 feet high.

    He even had a close contact with the God, this is to say, everything that was necessary to enter in the promised land and enjoy his last days over there.

    But Moses didn't make it.

    He disobeyed. Hmm hmm hmm... bad Moses... hmm hmm hmm...

    Yeshu (Jesus) became the way to fulfill the will of the God.

    The majority of people today is disobedient, and others don't believe at all in the scriptures. Here is when the Messiah must have to come again to implant a new government.

    The idea is to prepare the land for the presence or essence of the God. You know, the God is very picky. The God's essence won't touch an impure land, So, forget about it. The God just comes from his pedicure, and no impurities must be found on earth.

    This is why fire will be the medium to clean up the earth.

    Same as the friends of Daniel weren't affected by the fire of the oven, same as well the elected ones will survive such fire over the whole earth.

    That will be such a spectacle... to bad I won't be there... I might be with my swimming dress trying to swim on the lake of fire... what a way to die, eh? ... burnt and that's it.

    The job of the Messiah will continue up to the new heavens and new earth are settled. The entire universe having a kind of transformation. No more imperfection.

    A new beginning. Water coming out from the throne of the God, new trees of life from which people will eat and live forever... eternal light...

    It sounds very tempted, but even knowing all of that, I think I'll pass, I has been very happy with this life, of course having troubles here and there, but at the end of the day... it was OK.

    I don't think I will want another life, but I do encourage the ones who want to live in such a new era. I guess is worthy and the ones who reach such a status will be happy "as hell"... happy.
     
  4. wellwisher

    wellwisher Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus had been able to lived peacefully among the humans and he could have helped the world in many ways. But some humans felt very insecure by this, and found it necessary to kill the son of God.

    It was as though people had no respect for a kind and fair God who was based on love. Rather they seemed to prefer or even needed a tougher angry god who create bring fear, like Satan or the old Messiah.

    Love and fear are two very strong motivators, but fear was able to overcome love. The deep fear they had came from law; tree of knowledge of goods and evil. Law is only affective if there is a risk of punishment for not obeying the law. But with love and forgiveness of sin there is no need for punishment, so someone needed to be punished, or else the law would lose its power to create fear.

    After Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they tried to cover up, since they noticed they were naked. What changed in their minds? By eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, law defined naked as a sin, so fear appeared, and with it a need for action. There had been no fear of naked, before knowledge of good and evil and law defined this as a sin. This fear and action was a tell for God, since he knew that they now had fear from law, and were no longer innocent and natural.

    Jesus, although good for humanity, in many practical ways, preached what was against the religious and political laws of many peoples of his time. He induce the inner fear that all their laws had created; original sin. He had to be punished for violating their laws or else what good was law?

    This made no sense, since they killed what could have benefitted all. However, learned knowledge of good and evil, created fear and they felt the need to cover themselves, less they be in violation. Jesus helped to point out the pitfalls of law and fear, since the short term fear solution, destroyed a longer term opportunity for love and peace of mind.
     
  5. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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    I'm glad you said the son of God, and not God.
     
  6. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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    By the way, what's the old Messiah you mentioned in the 2nd paragraph?
     
  7. wellwisher

    wellwisher Well-Known Member

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    The Messiah of the Old Testament was expected to be rich and powerful and able to subdue all the enemies of Israel. Jesus, although called the Messiah, was more like the alter ego of the anticipated Messiah; humble and of modest means.

    Had Jesus become the Old Testament Messiah, personified with all the wealth, power and might, nobody would have bothered him, since he would have become a God that was feared. But as the soft alter ego of the expected Messiah, he was killed. Many Jews did not see Jesus as the Messiah since he was not scary to their enemies; love your enemy and preach to the Gentiles.

    Before Jesus started his ministry, he spent time in the desert fasting and praying. He was visited by Satan, who among other things, offers Jesus all the wealth and power of the kingdoms of the Earth. Satan offers Jesus all the logistics needed to become the Old Testament Messiah. However, Jesus knew if he had chosen that path, he would have needed to bow down and serve Satan, who was Lord of the Earth.

    Jesus does not say Satan does not have this authority to help him fulfill the prophesy, but rather Jesus declines the offer so he could become something different; alter ego, that did not require Satan becoming his boss. But this choice of weakness, induces hate and fear in those who were under law and Satan, so they lash out and kill the Son of God.

    One of the sales pitches by Satan to get Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, was once they ate they would become like gods, knowing good and evil. The magic of law made them gods in their own minds. When they killed Jesus, it was like the human gods of law killing a genuine god. The age of the gods on earth, had come to an end.
     
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  8. Ella S.

    Ella S. Vulcan

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    The most beneficial part of Jesus's life wasn't that he was able to multiply bread and fish or that he could heal the sick, but that he taught his followers how to do these things. Jesus acting alone was confined to quite a small area, but through his followers he was able to reach many more.

    In this sense, Christian charities, hospitals, and schools continue to do the work that Jesus would have, were he still around.

    As far as the religious narrative goes, maybe you could see this more as Christ teaching us to become more independent, sort of like a father raising his children to adulthood.
     
  9. wellwisher

    wellwisher Well-Known Member

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    If you look at Revelations, the story tells of Satan being thrown from heaven to the earth. This is connected to the rise of the Anti-Christ and False Prophet.

    Satan had been high up in the power structure of heaven. He was Lucifer before Satan, who was with God during creation. After Satan is was driven from heaven, in essence, another god comes down to the earth after Jesus was man handled and killed. The god Satan makes use of law and fear, via the Anti-Christ and False Prophet. Through fear and intrigue this god gains power and respect. The world becomes organized around the lie and the deception of his law. He will makes changes in times and law; revisionist history and new laws to fit the power hungry narratives. The lessons to be learned is, anyone in power can make law to suit their own needs. Law is not always valid in an objective sense.

    This new set of laws makes truth illegal and suspect. It also makes the killing of the Saints a public duty. Again, this hard realty is like a school of hard knocks, to teach people a lesson about the pitfalls of law. Satan was and would be the giver of law; knowledge of good and evil, but now his job is to do this to the extreme, so common sense can awaken.

    Years back, when I studied prophesy, I had the intuition of something I called the guilt sacrifice. Jesus was a sacrifice for sin, but many people, even with their sins forgiven, still feel guilty. They were forgiven, but they cannot forgive themselves and carry around baggage.

    In Revelations, the symbolism of the death of the two Anointed ones, who come alive after death, appears to be connected to the guilt sacrifice; man and woman. They die for the guilt of original sin, and are reborn and ascend to the heavens. When they have completed their testimony Satan will rise up overcome and kill them.

    The Two anointed ones had been Prophets whose job was to teach the flock; children of the promise. But after they die, resurrect and leave, the dogma of the forgiveness of sin and the new forgiveness of guilt, are distorted. This allows the dark side of law to open wide; appearance of Satan. If the new law says to kill, there is no sin and no regret or guilt, if you follow the law. This is intoxicating, leading to a downward spiral; until some pockets of humanity start to appear who resist such laws. The dividing line is drawn between the law and righteousness. This could have been avoided by choosing Jesus over law of good and evil and fear. But this was not the case.

    In my experience, revelation is less about wide scale social dynamics, and more about the individual updating their mind, through a renewing of their spirit. The update process can trigger a type of brain dynamics that has to runs it course, until one is on the other side; software update that can begin with a long uninstall process.
     
  10. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    The messiah of Hebrew Scripture was to be on like David, not a divinity.

    Love you're enemy, yes, but preach to the Gentiles? Jesus' mission was to the Jews only, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    “Do not give what is holy to dogs, or throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot, and turn and tear you to pieces
     
  11. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    I never understood how the gospel Jesus was like Gandhi, but the Jesus of Revelation is like Dirty Harry. I think it's projecting a Jesus that smites people's enemies, which I guess is easier than following the Jesus that tells you how to deal with enemies in a rational manner. Worshiping Jesus is also easier than following him. The Religious Right are taking the low road out of ease.
     
  12. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    Unfortunately, many of these hospitals are turning people away in their time of need, especially women needing reproductive care.
     
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  13. wellwisher

    wellwisher Well-Known Member

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    There were twelve tribes of Israel, with the Jews one of the twelve tribes. The tribes were scattered among the nations; Gentiles. Judah came back first. The other 11 tribes were the lost sheep. This is why the Gospel must be preached to all nations; gather all the tribes from everywhere.

    When Jesus said to not give what is holy to the dogs and swine, he was talking about the Pharisees. They did not see any value in the gospel of Jesus, but turned on Jesus and had him killed. This was due to fear connected to their law.

    The old way of a blood line being the most important thing was about to become passé. The righteous man would live by faith. The faithful had less to do with DNA; bloodline, and more to do with our choices. Dr Martin Luther King made the contrast between skin color; DNA. This something one has no control over. The opposite was the content of character. Character implies will, choice and effort; good living, with these things needed to develop character.

    The new way of Jesus was connected to Children of the Promise, versus the old way; Children of the Bond Woman; law and bloodline. All races, ethnicities and groups have good and bad people, even if they are of common DNA and/or common culture. There is no culture without criminals. Jesus was making a line in the sand and he was trying to reach the good people, within all the races and all the cultures, and not just the good and bad people of one select bloodline. The bad of one select group of good and bad people, often caused harm to others, in the name of the law; power.

    I like this idea of polarizing people into good and bad, instead of along lines of things that people cannot control. We can choose to be good or bad, but we can't choose to be tall, a certain skin color, of certain beauty, of certain strength, of a 150 IQ, etc. Too many people think the shallow criteria group is the good, even when populated by those who are not good by all objective criteria.

    Dr Martin Luther King chose the concept of character since not only does character this require choice and effort, but there are no evil people of character. Character is connected to goodness. But many people prefer to fixate on the shallow things, like race, that cannot be changed and are beyond one's control. This prevents good from leaving the bad, since you need to remained connected in the common shallows.

    The two political parties each have people of character and people acting like shady characters. If all the good people from both parties, came together, the good would be free to make the needed positive changes. But the political battle lines are draw at shallow things, like blood line and skin color, so both the good and bad get to stay on the same team; like law. The bad are called good by their teammates, since the ends of their group justifies the means. There are no good solutions without some problems that harm good people, not of the same shallows.
     
    #13 wellwisher, May 29, 2022
    Last edited: May 29, 2022
  14. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    I hardly think so since Jesus said to follow what they teach because they held the 'chair' of Moses, but not what they do for they were hypocrites.
     
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