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A new energy source; maybe/maybe not?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by james dixon, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    I have told you till I am blue in the face, you highly peculiar person. What's wrong with you?
     
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  2. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    I wouldn't laugh too quickly people. I remember when people use to laugh at this perpetual motion waterfall

    [​IMG]


    But take a look at THIS!!!




    So there!


    .

     
    #62 Skwim, Sep 15, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  3. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    Yes, have you accounted for water pressure decreasing as the balloon rises while the air inside expands creating more lift-?
    :)-
     
  4. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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  5. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    That's because I'm a bottom line person.

    The real thing will always make or break the paper fantasy* .

    *Of course the saying that if something doesn't quite work as planned , the following quip usually suffices. "Oh well , back to the drawing board".
     
  6. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Although there are limits, such as when the water runs out or the air becomes too saturated to allow for evaporation.

    But it is a cute try. :thumbsup:


    .
     
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  7. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    HOW IT WORKS
    I would build the thing to prove it works but to do that it would have to be built full scale, in the ocean as advertised. You can’t make a scaled model, it wouldn’t work.

    A three-dimensional computer model would work if it was programed to operate with the same parameters as the real thing including depth and sea pressure; ATM’s and it would have to operate in real time..

    For every ATM in depth (33') an air bubble is compressed to half its size.

    This also works in the reverse. An air bubble with a radius of 10 FT at 15 ATM's will expand to twice its size (r=20) at 14 ATM's.
    :)-
     
  8. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    A small model won't work for the same reason that the full scale model won't. The lift won't generate enough power to compress the air required to run it.
    Tom
     
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  9. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you are getting there, by degrees.

    What you say is correct. So what that means is that the energy needed to compress the bubble is the same as the energy it gives you back by rising to the surface. Right?

    So your device cannot produce more energy than it takes to run it.
     
  10. Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Coincidentia oppositorum
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    A thought I had, how about instead of getting compressed air down, why not just have a heater at the bottom boiling the water locally to release gases? Then the efficiency of the system depends more on the generator and heating elements and such.
     
  11. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    I believe you are missing the core point here.

    In the following energy = (E)
    In the following force = (F) energy to compress

    Balloon one has a (F1) that equals energy = (E1)
    Balloon two has a (F2) that equals energy = (E2)
    Balloon three has a (F3) that equals energy = (E3)
    Balloon four has a (F4) that equals energy = (E4)

    When you have them all attached to each other
    they have a combined lifting force of (F1)+(F2)+(F3)+(f4)

    While at the same time it only takes the force of (F1) to keep the system running.

    You now have (E1)+(E2)+(E3)+(e4) combined working together

    Or so I believe
     
  12. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    I designed a contraption like your idea that was along the mid-Atlantic ridge where molten lava was superheating seawater that did not flash into steam because of the extreme pressure at that depth.
    The idea also extracted the minerals as well.


    SEAFLUM1-page-001 (1).jpg
     
  13. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Please think. You have to expend your "energy to compress" to fill each balloon, not only once.
     
  14. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    Air Bubble
    Air is a gas
    gases compress with pressure

    Assuming constant temperature, Boyle's - a pressure of 19 atmospheres (1 atmosphere at sea level + 18 atmospheres for being 600ft under water)

    One square food of water at 1 ATM weighs 64 lbs.

    One square foot of water will compress to 1/2 square foot at 2 ATM

    EXAMPLE—
    Surface volume (X) = 300 CF
    Upper force (Y) = 64 lbs.

    Volume at 2 atm (X)/2 = 150 CF = 150 X 64 = 9,600 pounds of upward force

    Volume at 3 atm (X)/3 = 100 CF = 100 X 64 = 6,400 pounds of upward force

    Volume at 6 atm (X)/6 = 50 CF = 50 X 64 = + Y X CF = 3,200 lbs.

    Volume at 9 atm (X)/9 = 33.33 CF; upward force = Y X CF = 2,133 lbs.

    Volume at 12 atm (X)/12 = 25 CF; upward force = Y X CF = 1,600 lbs.

    Volume at 15 atm (X)/15 = 20 CF; upward force = Y X CF = 1,280 lbs.

    Volume at 18 atm (X)/18 = 16.66 CF; upward force = Y X CF = 1,066 lbs.

    Total upward force = 25,259 lbs.

    An air bubble rises at 2 feet a second

    2 X 60 = 120 feet per minute
    120 X 60 = 7,200 feet per hour
    5,280 feet in a mile

    7,200/5,280 = 1.36 miles an hour

    TOTAL force 25,259 lbs. traveling at 1.36 miles an hour

    globule

    I'm going to plug these numbers into the contraption and see what happens next

    :)-
     
  15. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Square food? Surely you mean square meal?

    But seriously, you might start by getting your units right. Volumes are measured in cubic feet (or cubic metres), not square feet. Also, to say an air bubble rises at 2ft/second is just rubbish. Your air bubbles have to be connected to your conveyor in order for you to extract any energy.

    It is obvious you have no idea at all what you are doing and that you won't learn, since you fail to engage at all with any of the criticisms that have been made in this thread.

    Time to stop reading your rubbish, I think.

    [click]
     
  16. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    [1] The lifting force of an air bubble (balloon) is equal to the water being displaced.; call this energy [X] This you cannot deny.
    [2] In water, an air bubble expands as it rises. This you cannot deny.
    [3] The lifting force of multiple balloons in a vertical row, all attached to each other has a lifting force equal to the combined lifting force of all the balloons; call this energy (F)
    [4] Energy [X]+[X]+[X]+[X]+[X] = [F]
    [5] [F] five (5) times greater than [X] at any one moment in time. This you cannot deny
    [6] To maintain this process all you have to add, at any one moment in time is [X] energy to get an output of [F]
    This you cannot deny
    seaengine2.jpg
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You forgot, it takes at least as much energy to pump the air down as you could get out. And that is assuming a perfect frictionless system. Your device whole consume energy, not
    produce it.
     
  18. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    Whatever the energy is needed to pump the air down is (X) while I am getting out the expanding, lifting force of (X}+(X)+(X)+(X) out-? **at any moment in time**

    Where am I going wrong-
    ok, ok, ok, I'm wrong; just don't know why ?
    :)-
     
  19. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    A lot of people here and elsewhere have been telling me that this gadget is unworkable; they have been correct. My calculations were gust wrong. I have gone back and crunched the numbers once again.

    Attached is my latest version.

    This version only goes to a depth of 198 feet and it generates a pulling force of 1,016,183 pounds of upward pull, puling at an accelerating speed of over 4 feet per second.


    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  20. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    You are deliberately missing the point. Your gadget can never work as a source of energy, in any form, as to do so it would need to break the laws of thermodynamics. The whole notion is silly and pointless.

    To be taken at all seriously, you need to quote, not only the force you generate but the work done per unit compressed air supplied, and set that against the energy needed to compress the air. If you do that, I guarantee the energy input to compress the air will be more than the energy output from your useless device.
     
    #80 exchemist, Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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