a muslim specialist of hindouism

[LuisDantas]

Alishan, may I ask you why that would be important?

It seems to me that texts may change, and so may people's understanding and interpretation of their meanings. I'm not sure that there is a problem in that. People are expected to develop a better, more ambitious and more balanced understanding of their own religious beliefs if they can, aren't they?

 

[alishan]

yes i understand your point of view louis

 

[chinu]

you said they dont call it gods but devas
but how they call vishnu , shiva, the major God? do they call them devas?
or devas only for 33 minor Gods?
yes 2000 years ago i am afraid maybe Men changed the text by misunderstanding i dont know

Suppose: Their is a tree and am asking the question to somebody,
What is This ?
The person answered : TREE. (Right answer).

Again: I am asking the question,
What is This ?
The person answered : BRANCH (This is also Right).

What was the difference in both the Questions.?

First time: I was asking the Q: using my one finger putting on the branch of tree and my expressions were clearly indicating Tree.

Second time: I was asking the Q: using my two finger holding the branch of the tree and my expressions were clearly indicating Branch.

Similarly:

When reading the holy or sacred books people go only for what is written, they are unknown to the deep expressions,
The person who through practical meditations has reached in the state of Samadhies or In the internal spiritual regions, Can only Touch the deep expressions of Sacred or holy books. (Truely all these holy books are written for them not we normal peoples, these books give them signs which help them in their spiritual journey )

Brahman, Vishnu & Shiv all are the parts of that great GOD,

But as stated in the holy books sometimes the word "Bhagwan" is being used for devtas, that because of they are touching only the branch and Expressions for the TREE.

_/\_Chinu.

 

[nameless]

Speaking as someone who is an Indian and knows a little bit of what actually goes on, conversion of tribal and lower caste Hindus in India is mainly because of the Christian missionary activities. The tribals and lower caste Hindus are treated badly due to the caste system and once they convert to Christianity (there is very very little conversion to Islam: mainly the conversion is to Christianity) many are helped by missionaries to find jobs and status.

you missed poverty, A-ManESL? the places where missionaries became success has good records for poverty and illiteracy.
The missionaries arrives disguised as charitable societies but helps only the converts, it is so unfortunate to see poor people has no other means to feed their children other than to sell their faith to these missionaries.

 

[alishan]

ah ok

sorry but can we call Brahma, shiva and vishnu as devas? how can we call each?

what is the ethymology of "Bhagwan"?

thanks

 

[alishan]

an other question the vedism perios had major divinities Mitra, Varuna, Indra et les Nasatya (ou Ashvins). and then in hindouism period this divinities became less important and the major divinities was vishnu shiva and brahma

who decided of this changement and how it happened?

thank you just understanding no critize

 

[chinu]

sorry but can we call Brahma, shiva and vishnu as devas? how can we call each?
what is the ethymology of "Bhagwan"?

Good Question, "Bhagwan" has two meanings.

First: Bhagwan mean one who has bhakt bhagwan is recognised by devotees he/she has bhag mean bhakt and van refers to possession and hence bhagwan is derived.

Suppose somebody is praying for the Money, than we can call that person is the bhakt of Money (luxkmi) and for that person Luxkmi is like Bhagwan,
Now this person is the devotee (bhakt) of Godess Luxkami means for him/her money is god, he/she is Not the bhakt of Great God.

Similarly

When anybody is in need of good wealth and living facilities all around then the person is the devotee of Bhagwan Vishnu, because as vishnu is the dietie over navel chakra & from the navel centre the food which gets into the body which turns into blood and then is further supplied to the other parts of the body,
So the work of Vishnu is to Take care.

So, for these type of persons Vishnu is god they are Not the devotees (bhakts) of Great God.

Similarly

Other devtas like Shiv or Brahma or others has thier own devotees (bhakts) for their own specific Managements which are given to them by Great God.

As a result: Yes! these types of devotees of Brahma, shiv or vishnu etc devtas can get good wealth or lifestyles etc etc etc by becoming devotees (bhakt) of them, but can Never achive the state of True Salvation or can know about one Great God.

SECONDLY: "Bhagwan" is the jointing of two words, Bhag (means girl's private part) and wan(Means pores, also called rome koop, in the body). Ladies experience supreme sukh during sex act.. Bhagwan is name given to the almighty, the darshan of which converts each pore of the body into yoni, i.e a state of supreme bliss.
So, Like this "Bhagwan" is also used for Great God also.


_/\_Chinu.

 

[chinu]

an other question the vedism perios had major divinities Mitra, Varuna, Indra et les Nasatya (ou Ashvins). and then in hindouism period this divinities became less important and the major divinities was vishnu shiva and brahma

who decided of this changement and how it happened?

thank you just understanding no critize

Most of the temples in hinduism are on the names of Genash, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiv, and Mata, and their avtaras.
People gernally use to visit or worship these temples for the sake of their incompleate wordly desires or fun or merry making or holidays etc..and in such a way the names of related dieties become more popular than others.

Whereas, the true education was to worship the temples which are situiated inside the human body with the help of practical meditations, and people find these meditations more than enough tough subject to do, because this needs a lot of heartly (not physically) sacrifices.

Why most of the temples are on their names ?
For example: there is a six story building and stairs are going up,
Similarly: Body has six main chakras, and stairs are going up,

So, truely each stairs is like a temple and has its own dietie, but the dieties who are presiding on five main stories (chakras) are Genesh, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiv & Mata, that is why most of the temples are on their names.

As a result: This does not means that other dieties does not have any importance,
If anybody really want to climb than each stair is Important,
But only for those who want to worship True Inner Temples not the Outer temples.

_/\_Chinu.

 

[Breathe]

an other question the vedism perios had major divinities Mitra, Varuna, Indra et les Nasatya (ou Ashvins). and then in hindouism period this divinities became less important and the major divinities was vishnu shiva and brahma

who decided of this changement and how it happened?

thank you just understanding no critize

Firstly, Brahma is not a very worshipped God in modern Hinduism. He was in the past, though, but he is not now. Perhaps this is because of Buddhism's influence, perhaps because the world is currently in the stage of preservation (of Vishnu), perhaps something else. I'll go with something else.

There are a collection of stories about Brahma and Indra and their relationship with the Divine. In the Brahmavaivarta Purana, Vishnu visits Indra in the form of a young brahmin, and they speak, and Vishnu comments on how nice his palace is, and no other Indra had such a nice palace.

Indra laughs and asks him about it, and becomes shocked as the boy (who is Vishnu) tells him of his past. As he speaks, 14 ants come into the room, and Vishnu tells Indra they are all former Indras.


But to me, these are just stories, nothing more. They are not literal events to me.

 

[alishan]

THANKS

but who decide this changement of major Gods from the vedism period to the hindouism period?

how do you say the word God in sanscrit? not angel or devas but God?

 

[LuisDantas]

THANKS

but who decide this changement of major Gods from the vedism period to the hindouism period?

how do you say the word God in sanscrit? not angel or devas but God?

I will wait for Hindus to answer, but it seems to me that what makes Devas major along time is their popularity.

I'm not sure there is a Sanskrit word that approaches the meaning of Allah better than Deva, either. God concepts are very variable from a culture to the next, and only correspond to each other very loosely, if at all. If you are unsatisfied with the correspondence between Deva and Allah, you will have pains with the Japanese culture; the Kami are if anything even further removed from the Abrahamic conception of God.

 

[Breathe]

but who decide this changement of major Gods from the vedism period to the hindouism period?

They changed over time. Nobody can say who changed the major gods of the Vedic period to become minor gods of today. It happened over time, with many reasons, through many influences. Buddhism was probably among them. How it happened for sure though is lost in the mists of time.

how do you say the word God in sanscrit? not angel or devas but God?

There are multiple words for God in Sanskrit, Deva, Bhagavan/Bhagwan, Ishvara are among them. It depends how far you go back, at a guess.

The reason why one can call Ganesha, Shiva, Vishnu, Indra etc as "The Gods" is because they are all considered as devas--and one of the translations of deva is "God"--and all the devas lead back into one God.

So you know I'm not just making it up, the scripture itself will be provided.

The Rig Veda says:

इन्द्रं मित्रं वरुणमग्निमाहुरथो दिव्यः स सुपर्णो गरुत्मान |
एकं सद विप्रा बहुधा वदन्त्यग्निं यमं मातरिश्वानमाहुः ||
indraṃ mitraṃ varuṇamaghnimāhuratho divyaḥ sa suparṇo gharutmān |
ekaṃ sad viprā bahudhā vadantyaghniṃ yamaṃ mātariśvānamāhuḥ ||

They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuṇa, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutmān.
To what is One, sages give many a title [they call it] Agni, Yama, Mātariśvan.

-- Rig Veda: Book 1, Chapter 164, verse 46 [Griffiths Translation. Not the translation I prefer to use, though]​

​

Does this help?

 

[Breathe]

you will have pains with the Japanese culture; the Kami are if anything even further removed from the Abrahamic conception of God.

This made me chuckle. That it would.

 

[chinu]

but who decide this changement of major Gods from the vedism period to the hindouism period?

"Khuda" knows, or as you have said that their are deep relations between sufism & hinduism in the past.
So, my guess is "sufism"

how do you say the word God in sanscrit? not angel or devas but God?

"God" = "He + Himself" = "Hehimself".
Khud = He
Aap = Himself
Khud + Aap = Khudaap, so the nick name becomes "Khuda".


But alishan ji if my guess is right, than in my personal understandings, both hindus or muslims cannot digest this "Truth".

Once again "Alishan ji" very nice to meet you and for the mean time,
_/\_"Khudafis" by Chinu.

 

[alishan]

thank to you

chinu yes i understand what you mean

 

[alishan]

have you seen my post about bouddha and Prophet Mohamed sws in hindouism?

 

[Breathe]

have you seen my post about bouddha and Prophet Mohamed sws in hindouism?

I haven't seen yours personally, but I have seen prophecies on Muhammad.

That includes the Bhavishya Purana prediction.. of the incarnation of a Tripurasura great demon known as Maha-Mada / Mahamad. The one claimed by Zakir Naik is the same one, but he seems to miss off the "finer details", like he was an incarnation of a demon and was a "polluter of righteousness". :cover:


I've seen all the "Muhammad in X religion prophecy" things.

 

[Madhuri]

I haven't seen yours personally, but I have seen prophecies on Muhammad.

That includes the Bhavishya Purana prediction.. of the incarnation of a Tripurasura great demon known as Maha-Mada / Mahamad. The one claimed by Zakir Naik is the same one, but he seems to miss off the "finer details", like he was an incarnation of a demon and was a "polluter of righteousness". :cover:


I've seen all the "Muhammad in X religion prophecy" things.

This is the thread:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/comparative-religion/109032-bouddha-mohamed-hindou.html

 

[Breathe]

Thank you Madhuri

 

[alishan]

That includes the Bhavishya Purana prediction.. of the incarnation of a Tripurasura great demon known as Maha-Mada / Mahamad. The one claimed by Zakir Naik is the same one, but he seems to miss off the "finer details", like he was an incarnation of a demon and was a "polluter of righteousness". :cover:


please it s interesting give me the sentence in the holy book purana in sanskrit and in english