A More Compassionate Response to Abortion

[Watchmen]

What would you like the abortion laws in the US to be?

I would like the wedge issue of abortion to get the hell out of the way of the real needs of the country.

 

[QuestioningMind]

By that reasoning, the mother is no longer an individual because she is not separate from the fetus (the “something else”).

The mother can absolutely survive separate from the fetus, so the mother remains an individual. The fetus on the other hand cannot survive separate from the mother and therefor is not an individual.

 

[Left Coast]

I would like the wedge issue of abortion to get the hell out of the way of the real needs of the country.

Abortion is a real need and issue for people who can get pregnant, though. So again, what would you like the abortion laws in the country to be?

 

[robocop (actually)]

if a person was pro-life, would it be a better response to offer someone who is considering abortion, financial and/or physical support? Then at the end of the pregnancy ask the person to release the newborn to either themselves, an adoption agency, or the state protective services?

how is forcing someone to have an unwanted and probably unplanned pregnancy going to ensure the longevity and well being of a potential person, a fetus?

when did controlling your neighbor, or trespassing against your neighbor become ok with the biblical commandment not to trespass?

is it OK to steal from peter to pay Paul, who may/may not be a fully formed and born individual?

I have heard that situations where the family cannot afford to provide for the child's development in the womb are rare.

 

[Father Heathen]

A woman can decide to have an abortion out of very different reasons.
She can be afraid of the pregnancy, labor and delivery. Both physically and psychologically.

If the reason is exclusively economic, if we speak of first world countries, it is the State who takes care of the children that a mother cannot take care of.

Except that in the U.S. the same people who oppose abortion also oppose universal healthcare and social programs that would provide assistance for mother and child. They also tend to the oppose the very things that help prevent unwanted pregnancies such as sex education and contraceptives.
This has far more to do with coochie control than fetus saving; power not compassion.

 

[Watchmen]

The mother can absolutely survive separate from the fetus, so the mother remains an individual. The fetus on the other hand cannot survive separate from the mother and therefor is not an individual.

See post 5. Wasn’t about survival.

 

[Watchmen]

Abortion is a real need and issue for people who can get pregnant, though. So again, what would you like the abortion laws in the country to be?

I’m pro-choice. There should be no dispute in the first trimester.

 

[74x12]

if a person was pro-life, would it be a better response to offer someone who is considering abortion, financial and/or physical support? Then at the end of the pregnancy ask the person to release the newborn to either themselves, an adoption agency, or the state protective services?

how is forcing someone to have an unwanted and probably unplanned pregnancy going to ensure the longevity and well being of a potential person, a fetus?

when did controlling your neighbor, or trespassing against your neighbor become ok with the biblical commandment not to trespass?

is it OK to steal from peter to pay Paul, who may/may not be a fully formed and born individual?

People already do this in America and are demonized/attacked and sometimes even disallowed by the loving, liberal left wing.

 

[Clara Tea]

if a person was pro-life, would it be a better response to offer someone who is considering abortion, financial and/or physical support? Then at the end of the pregnancy ask the person to release the newborn to either themselves, an adoption agency, or the state protective services?

how is forcing someone to have an unwanted and probably unplanned pregnancy going to ensure the longevity and well being of a potential person, a fetus?

when did controlling your neighbor, or trespassing against your neighbor become ok with the biblical commandment not to trespass?

is it OK to steal from peter to pay Paul, who may/may not be a fully formed and born individual?

Some choose abortion because they can't afford a baby. But welfare might still support them. The problem is the trap of generational welfare (fear that once on, the family will stay on welfare).

The poor don't have the ability to work, or their pay will be deducted from their welfare check. There should be a way to slowly take them off of welfare and allow them to work if they want to in order to supplement their pay.

The poor also can't move. So, if someone owns a double wide mobile home, they are stuck paying space rent (and/or Home Owner's Associiation fees), at the mercy of difficult local rules, and if they raise rents it would be next to impossible for the poor to afford to move their mobile homes (many forced to sell cheaply, and be homeless or move to a hotel until the money runs out).

Finances are playing an increasing role in other decisions (religion, theft, abortion). The poor are becoming desperate.

 

[Clara Tea]

I would like the wedge issue of abortion to get the hell out of the way of the real needs of the country.

Many Christians think that abortion is about murdering babies. Some worry about their souls.

So, I can understand why this wedge issue (made to get votes, then forgotten after the election) is important to some.

However, we have to find some alternate ground that would satisfy most and do the best good.

 

[Clara Tea]

The mother can absolutely survive separate from the fetus, so the mother remains an individual. The fetus on the other hand cannot survive separate from the mother and therefore is not an individual.

I never thought of this. Great post.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

The mother can absolutely survive separate from the fetus, so the mother remains an individual. The fetus on the other hand cannot survive separate from the mother and therefor is not an individual.

I never thought of this. Great post.

I'm wondering if you would afford/allow individualism to the 'things' in the near future fortunate enough to have their 'life' saved by what is currently on the frontier of cutting-edge technology:

The world's first artificial womb for humans

Synthetic womb = not inside mother.
How certain are we, that we have even identified the actual problem?
From what I can ascertain, we have the tech, we have the capability, we have the resources... What are we missing?

 

[Colt]

unfortunately, most of the right to lifers don't care how this affects the individual. they only care about parts of the individual

We care about the child that gets killed.

In America the basis for Planned Parenthood was to kill black children.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

if a person was pro-life, would it be a better response to offer someone who is considering abortion, financial and/or physical support? Then at the end of the pregnancy ask the person to release the newborn to either themselves, an adoption agency, or the state protective services?

how is forcing someone to have an unwanted and probably unplanned pregnancy going to ensure the longevity and well being of a potential person, a fetus?

when did controlling your neighbor, or trespassing against your neighbor become ok with the biblical commandment not to trespass?

is it OK to steal from peter to pay Paul, who may/may not be a fully formed and born individual?

I've said this before, but if we start with the assumption that the so-called "pro-life" movement is concerned with preventing abortion, a lot of things they do make no sense at all.

OTOH, if we start with the assumption that the movement is concerned with punishing women* for having sex they don't approve of, everything they do suddenly makes sense.



*I say "women" because this movement generally comes as a package deal with anti-trans attitudes, too.

 

[pearl]

No. A potential is not protected by the Constitution.

Hasn't the Court already decided that human life begins at conception? RvW concluded there was no consensus among medical experts or among the religions, and neither could the Court make that decision.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

I've said this before, but if we start with the assumption that the so-called "pro-life" movement is concerned with preventing abortion, a lot of things they do make no sense at all.

OTOH, if we start with the assumption that the movement is concerned with punishing women* for having sex they don't approve of, everything they do suddenly makes sense.



*I say "women" because this movement generally comes as a package deal with anti-trans attitudes, too.

TLDR: Destigmatize abortion! Re-romanticize fornication!

I'm what would be considered a 'pro-lifer', and I personally have no rebuttal to your point...
As a non-traditional member of the 'pro-life' clique, I perceive abortion as a necessary and vital procedure in our medical arsenal. However, I cannot endorse what I perceive as an increasingly paraphilia-steeped vortex within which we're careening towards an anticlimactic finale of a society saturated by insipid hedonism. I am uncertain the level of consciousness anything besides myself experiences, so I cannot justify claiming when or what determines anything 'alive' or 'life'. Nor am I certain where to draw the line regarding the ethics or morality of judging what is and is not life, let alone acting upon those judgements.

Edit/P.S.
Not to mention that any healthy or viable fetus has a potentiality of being our next great mind such as Aurelias, or Beethoven, or, or Einstein etc.

Dramatized example:
Imagine that one individual who would have grown to create vast improvements on our entire species' perception of societal values ushering us into a new era of communal understanding and respect for ourselves and one another. Unfortunately, they were one of the uncommon cases of a healthy fetus being discarded. Shame their mother wasn't provided for by a properly organized social program...

My wish of how the US fed could be handling this:
Ensure to women carrying ill-conceived babies a respectable amount of financial and housing assurance for the entire pregnancy and some set amount of time after the birth. Furthermore, if they choose to keep the child, ensure the mother's access to employment or other means so she can provide housing, food, education, and clothing to the new member of the species...

 

[PruePhillip]

A woman can decide to have an abortion out of very different reasons.
She can be afraid of the pregnancy, labor and delivery. Both physically and psychologically.

If the reason is exclusively economic, if we speak of first world countries, it is the State who takes care of the children that a mother cannot take care of.

You are afraid to take a step in life, as millions of other women have, so you kill your unborn child.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hasn't the Court already decided that human life begins at conception? RvW concluded there was no consensus among medical experts or among the religions, and neither could the Court make that decision.

No. You won't find any such decision. And why would you listen to them when it came to a moral decision?

In Roe v Wade they wisely ducked that decision:

Supreme Court's Response to the Question: When Does Life Begin? Roe v. Wade 1973 "We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins."

 

[Estro Felino]

You are afraid to take a step in life, as millions of other women have, so you kill your unborn child.

According to the law, the State does try to empathize with the diversified psychological implications of womanhood, meaning not all women are equally predisposed to motherhood.

Nevertheless, an adult is supposed to understand that sexual relations are not a game. Especially when it deals with human life.
And of course, a woman who will not take the pill and yet will have abortions many many times, is to be judged negatively. It is a socially despicable behavior, because cheap birth control pills are a solution to women who don't want to become mothers.

Abortion Addict Confesses 15 Procedures in 16 Years

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

According to the law, the State does try to empathize with the diversified psychological implications of womanhood, meaning not all women are equally predisposed to motherhood.

Nevertheless, an adult is supposed to understand that sexual relations are not a game. Especially when it deals with human life.
And of course, a woman who will not take the pill and yet will have abortions many many times, is to be judged negatively. It is a socially despicable behavior, because cheap birth control pills are a solution to women who don't want to become mothers.

Abortion Addict Confesses 15 Procedures in 16 Years

That is weird... I hadn't even the slightest thought of that particular mentality being a possibility...

It has to be extreeme extreme rare case, like one in a billion or rarer... At least I would hope.