A Moral question on the nature of "Forgiveness"

[Tumah]

not my fault no one else is posting things for me to burn. so I have to make my own bonfire

Ok, but maybe you don't need a separate bonfire for each activity. A single bonfire can perform a lot of different functions, you know.

 

[Enoch07]

2 major problems here. Your premise is completely wrong.

Your job as a Christian to convert people as so they can escape the firey brimstony damnation that is Hell.

Incorrect. Our job is to better ourselves and also help our neighbors better themselves, so that they can help better someone else and so on. Our job is not to convert people.

Why have none of you had the humility the decency the Heart. and soul. to forgive the one Sinner who needed it most? Satan?

Because we are not the judge. God is the judge. Satan could ask for forgivness from God. But that means he would have to go through Jesus for salvation. Which is one of the reasons Satan rebelled to begin with. Because he rejects Jesus. So imo his ego would never allow him to bend knee to Jesus. But that's on Satan, not us.

 

[Grandliseur]

can you quote me the verse where repeated deliberate sin is unforgivable? or the verse stating it was only for humans.

In the case of adultery, Jesus' own statement show that if there were forgiveness of this serious sin, obviously, divorce wouldn't be the way to solve the problem:

Matthew 5: 31 `And it was said, That whoever may put away his wife, let him give to her a writing of divorce; 32 but I--I say to you, that whoever may put away his wife, save for the matter of whoredom, doth make her to commit adultery; and whoever may marry her who hath been put away doth commit adultery.(YLT)​

So, whoredom, fornication, adultery are reasons for divorce. If these are reasons for divorce, then they haven't been forgiven.

Sin
John tells us that there are basically two groups of sin, the ones not to death, and the ones that damn to eternal death.

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: not concerning this do I say that he should make request. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (ASV)​

All sin
Since all sin, and none can avoid it, the above should become obvious after a few scriptures and meditation on them.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.​

The sin that damns

Willful sin damns a Christian – being slave to sin damns


John tells us that those of us who live in Christ cannot sin – that is willful sin he speaks about – and that those who do sin willfully become the children of the Devil! This is stated here:

1 John 3:6 Whosoever, in him, doth abide, is not sinning: whosoever is sinning, hath not seen him, and doth not understand him. 7 Dear children! Let, no one, lead you astray! He that is doing righteousness, is, righteous, just as, He, is righteous: 8 He that is committing sin, is, of the adversary, because, from the beginning, the adversary is sinning. To this end, was the Son of God made manifest, in order that he might undo the works of the adversary. 9 Whosoever hath been born of God, is not committing, sin, because, a seed of him, within him, abideth; and he cannot be committing sin, because, of God, hath he been born. 10 Herein, are, manifest, the children of God, and the children of the adversary: Whoever is not doing righteousness, is not of God, nor yet he that is not loving his brother.​

Jesus said the same in this way:

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord! Lord! shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens,—but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in the heavens. 22 Many, will say unto me, in, that, day, Lord! Lord! did we not, in thy name, prophesy, and, in thy name, cast, demons, out,—and, in thy name, many works of power, perform? 23 And, then, will I confess unto them, Never, have I acknowledged you,—Depart from me, ye workers of lawlessness!​

This same is taught by Paul in this fashion: (Rotherham)

Heb 10:26 For, if, by choice, we be sinning, after the receiving of the full-knowledge of the truth, no longer, for sins, is there left over, a sacrifice, 27 But some fearful reception of judgment and fiery jealousy, about to devour the opposers. 28 Any one having set aside a law of Moses, apart from compassions, upon [the testimony of] two or three witnesses, dieth: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be accounted worthy, who hath trampled underfoot the Son of God, and, the blood of the covenant, hath esteemed, a profane thing, by which he had been made holy, and, unto the Spirit of favour, hath offered wanton insult? 30 For we know him that hath said—To me, belongeth avenging, I, will recompense; and again—The Lord will judge his people. 31 A fearful thing [it is] to fall into the hands of a Living God!​

The devil

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.​

Some of the above was copied from a study of mine that is larger than this. If you should like to read the whole thing, including the things you already saw, please click on the link provided here:

Link:>Christian sin and being forgiven - by the scriptures<

If you want more information, let me know.

​

 

[Father]

2 major problems here. Your premise is completely wrong.



Incorrect. Our job is to better ourselves and also help our neighbors better themselves, so that they can help better someone else and so on. Our job is not to convert people.



Because we are not the judge. God is the judge. Satan could ask for forgiveness from God. But that means he would have to go to Jesus for salvation. Which is one of the reasons Satan rebelled, to begin with? Because he rejects Jesus. So imo his ego would never allow him to bend knee to Jesus. But that's on Satan, not us.

Ghadi had the decency to write Hitler a letter pleading him not to go to war. he did anyway. Ghandi had to of known the futility of it. but tried anyway. it was a kind act. one apparently Christians lack the ability to do but Hindu's can?

such is why I despise Christianity. it can proclaim Light but when one of its people asked to give a small gesture of kindness or mercy they refuse as it does not benefit them in any way.

those who are Good don't believe in futility. they act on pure instinct. they don't think of long convoluted reasons why they don't act. they just act.
when I give food or a cigarette to a homeless person on the street I don't stop and think "my giving them food won't help them out of their predicament, nor do I do it out of self-gain. I do it simply because I can.

I lack faith. I think there is a creator. but don't believe in the bible or any of it.

in a hypothetical of Satan existing, such a being to of had pent of wrath and anger for Millenium would have to hurt. I would not hesitate to try to get such a being to let go of it and get forgiven.

the fact one of no faith would attempt such but those who actually buy the story would not and need some reason of God not even to attempt to do so is just sad...

 

[Grandliseur]

Strange.
I thought all things were forgivable.

Unfortunately, you are not alone in that. It shall bite a lot of us in our tail feathers. I don't think it is reason to loose all hope since the ones who were ignorant of this and repent stopping this sin and getting baptized into Christ may be forgiven. It all depends on the Judge Christ.

 

[Grandliseur]

Everything is forgivable. They still have benefits or consequences; and, that shouldn't deprive them from the one thing human's want the most--your forgiveness.

Kind of puts a dent on christian prison ministries that forgive criminals for their crimes against humanity; thereby, talking with them while some come to christ. Many ways to forgive without saving them from the consequence of their actions.

If murder is not forgivable, jesus would not have died for all.

I John 3:15:
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.​

Not all killing may be said to be murder. Killing in war when combatants fire on each other is not murder, even in scripture. Killing by accident is also not murder.

Church teaching rarely tows the line of scripture. Pastors and priests many times preach church doctrine, not Bible doctrine.

 

[Profound Realization]

So in Christendom essentially, all things are forgivable. and it is Your job as a Christian to convert people as so they can escape the firey brimstony damnation that is Hell. *besides the fact if most scientists went to Hell it probably has air conditioning by now*

So... Just a quick question.

Why have none of you had the humility the decency the Heart. and soul. to forgive the one Sinner who needed it most? Satan?
I Don't see anyone praying for his forgiveness. and if your sorry self can go drink margarita's and snort coke off a hooker on Saturday and be forgiven on Sunday. I am pretty sure a failed rebel that fell 1000s of years ago can be forgiven.

nor is there a stipulation that angels are not able to be forgiven or that you should only try for those who have the willingness too ask it.
because I know some of you go door to door 6am on a Monday and harass me so if you can go through that trouble you can have the decency of praying for Satan to find forgiveness.

on a side note, I am on a roll today with these morally controversial questions.
Yay me.

Even in "Christiandom," all things are not essentially forgivable, such as "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." Whatever that may mean to people, as there are multiple interpretations.

In my perception, I'd say that when someone is made intuitively fully aware/known that something is wrong/harmful and willingly continues to do such.

Also, in my perception... to hold onto grudges/blame/imperfections/wrongdoings of other human beings is hell itself. In which case, an internal air conditioning of forgiveness(letting go) would be beneficial .

 

[Father]

Even in "Christiandom," all things are not essentially forgivable, such as "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." Whatever that may mean to people, as there are multiple interpretations.

In my perception, I'd say that when someone is made intuitively fully aware/known that something is wrong/harmful and willingly continues to do such.

Also, in my perception... to hold onto grudges/blame/imperfections/wrongdoings of other human beings is hell itself. In which case, an internal air conditioning of forgiveness(letting go) would be beneficial .

than would you not offer such sentiments to Satan? forgive him for the actions he has done against Humanity and inturn pray for him to ask forgiveness himself

 

[osgart]

degrees of evil. sin is the lesser because they know not what they do.

Satan knows well what he is doing. eternal murder of the innocent is fixed in his heart.

 

[Enoch07]

it was a kind act. one apparently Christians lack the ability to do but Hindu's can?

We did the next best thing. We flew over there and killed the s.o.b.

such is why I despise Christianity. it can proclaim Light but when one of its people asked to give a small gesture of kindness or mercy they refuse as it does not benefit them in any way.

those who are Good don't believe in futility. they act on pure instinct. they don't think of long convoluted reasons why they don't act. they just act.
when I give food or a cigarette to a homeless person on the street I don't stop and think "my giving them food won't help them out of their predicament, nor do I do it out of self-gain. I do it simply because I can.

We perform small acts. So small they go unnoticed by anyone who is not directly effected by the acts. I would not give someone a cigarette or alcohol. But I do donate blood platelets and my time to people with leukemia and other bone marrow diseases. I get nothing in return except for a groggy feeling, numb lips, and some bruising (if an someone inexperienced in taping veins is there) and a free snack/fruit drink. I don't so it because it benefits me in anyway. I do it because people need platelets and I happen to be a high volume donor. Last time I went they drew 4 bags of platelets, most people only can give 1 or 2 per visit. The Lord blessed me with a high blood platelet count (I avg about 450,000-750,00), and I use that blessing to help others. I don't hand out pamphlets, I don't preach to patients (unless they ask for prayer), and I expect nothing in return.

Isaiah 64:6

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

My good deeds do nothing to get me into heaven. As Isaiah 64:6 says. So I don't even benefit in that regard. It is solely for the benefit of others.

the fact one of no faith would attempt such but those who actually buy the story would not and need some reason of God not even to attempt to do so is just sad...

It's not a matter of attempting or not. It is not our place. We are no judge, jury, or executioner. That is God's job.

 

[Father]

We did the next best thing. We flew over there and killed the s.o.b.





We perform small acts. So small they go unnoticed by anyone who is not directly effected by the acts. I would not give someone a cigarette or alcohol. But I do donate blood platelets and my time to people with leukemia and other bone marrow diseases. I get nothing in return except for a groggy feeling, numb lips, and some bruising (if an someone inexperienced in taping veins is there) and a free snack/fruit drink. I don't so it because it benefits me in anyway. I do it because people need platelets and I happen to be a high volume donor. Last time I went they drew 4 bags of platelets, most people only can give 1 or 2 per visit. The Lord blessed me with a high blood platelet count (I avg about 450,000-750,00), and I use that blessing to help others. I don't hand out pamphlets, I don't preach to patients (unless they ask for prayer), and I expect nothing in return.

Isaiah 64:6

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

My good deeds do nothing to get me into heaven. As Isaiah 64:6 says. So I don't even benefit in that regard. It is solely for the benefit of others.




It's not a matter of attempting or not. It is not our place. We are no judge, jury, or executioner. That is God's job.

I pity you. you don't even recognize the meaning of forgiveness

forgiving someone is not about judging a judge does not forgive. forgiving is what a victim does to the perpetrator.

the only who holds power to forgive would be the victim. in this case, Humanity if our entire fall and current stasis is due to Satan,
regardless of God's opinion. it is something that the Good due to the Bad even if it changes nothing, its why Jesus stated he forgives his executors. it does nothing truly. they will not change their minds or even regret their actions. but its something the kind can do even on bended knee with their head on the chopping block. it is done with nothing personally gained. but if it is done enough time's by enough people the evil itself will forgive itself and will be vanquished. it's also how we rehabilitate criminals back into useful members of society

if you cant even understand that you learned nothing from the story of Jesus. its also why his ideals did become corrupted and fuel for countless atrocities and power play's
a shame that simple lessons like give to the poor and don't give up on helping any even the prostitute the drunkard and all of the societies lost lambs. I truly pity you.

 

[Enoch07]

I pity you. you don't even recognize the meaning of forgiveness

I do, far more than you could ever imagine. I have stared into the abyss. Luckily I was able to come back.

forgiving someone is not about judging a judge does not forgive. forgiving is what a victim does to the perpetrator.

It is in the sense your talking about. Which is forgiviness for Satan.

the only who holds power to forgive would be the victim.

The victim does have some say when the Lord judges them. But ultimately the final decision is up to the Lord.

if you cant even understand that you learned nothing from the story of Jesus. its also why his ideals did become corrupted and fuel for countless atrocities and power play's
a shame that simple lessons like give to the poor and don't give up on helping any even the prostitute the drunkard and all

His ideals are not corrupted. Corrupted folks use his ideals as a shield in attempt to justify their actions. But the ideal itself is not corrupt. Much like in Islam. Extremist use Islam as a shield to justify their actions. But it is not all Muslims that are corrupt. It is the extremist that hide behind Islam. This is an important distinction.

 

[Profound Realization]

than would you not offer such sentiments to Satan? forgive him for the actions he has done against Humanity and inturn pray for him to ask forgiveness himself

If such an entity(s) or "invincible/spiritual" being existed, I would love nothing more than to make peace/let go with any evil.

I can only speak for the knowing of myself, that the only enemies/adversary's/bringers of light from darkness.. I'd be aware of would be in my own house(mind and body.) In which case, I'd also love to make peace/let go with any evil. If that means destroying any evil within me to make peace, so be it.

 

[Father]

I do, far more than you could ever imagine. I have stared into the abyss. Luckily I was able to come back.



It is in the sense your talking about. Which is forgiviness for Satan.



The victim does have some say when the Lord judges them. But ultimately the final decision is up to the Lord.



His ideals are not corrupted. Corrupted folks use his ideals as a shield in attempt to justify their actions. But the ideal itself is not corrupt. Much like in Islam. Extremist use Islam as a shield to justify their actions. But it is not all Muslims that are corrupt. It is the extremist that hide behind Islam. This is an important distinction.

no the words in the book themselves. you have not read a Qur'an nor could see the new testament at face value. both hold questionable works. both prone to creating Violence and creating conflict. granted Jesus's ideas may not be but his ideas were not recorded down by him. but by second-hand accounts and edited and changed possibly many times. the oldest NT on record does not even mention his crucifixion.
you lack the ability of self-reflectance or understanding. the fact you have corrupted the idea of forgiveness so much as to only be possible to be given by the one with the most power is why I pity you. there is no room for growth there. it's a dead end. that can only erode and fade into obscurity like countless religions before it. all the while its original message lost and only the wounds it inflicted remain.


Pulvis pariter ut favilla et cinere

 

[Kemosloby]

We forgive others for what Satan makes them do, so it would be sort of redundant to say "I forgive you for your trespasses against me, and you too Mr. Satan, yes I see you in there."

 

[Enoch07]

the fact you have corrupted the idea of forgiveness so much as to only be possible to be given by the one with the most power is why I pity you

See now that's what we call a strawman.

The forgiveness you speak of (in regards to Satan) is only for God to forgive.

You then try to flip that and say I have perverted forgiveness, by taking it away from the victims, which is a different type of forgiveness.

You can feel pity for me all you want.

But I do not pity you. For you know exactly what you do.

 

[blü 2]

Why have none of you had the humility the decency the Heart. and soul. to forgive the one Sinner who needed it most? Satan?

Strong says the word 'satan' only means 'adversary', 'opposer' and can have a legal connection. In the Tanakh, in all the translations I quickly looked at, it has a capital, so we're talking about a personified opposer.

In Job 1.6 we learn that Satan is one of the 'sons of God'. He and Yahweh get into an argument. It doesn't say they were in a bar, but it reads like it, and the outcome is a bet that Satan can get Job to give up on his faith. Do your worst, son, says Yahweh, short of killing him. So Satan robs Job of his livelihood, makes him sick, makes him loathsome to be near, kills his wife and children, pours the whole bucket on him. Then he says to Yahweh, You win, dad, and they have another beer (and then at last Job wins the lottery and lives happily ever after. The morality of Yahweh in the Job story is deeply disgusting, but so it goes.)

In Zechariah 3.2 Yahweh rebukes Satan briefly.

And except for a brief mention back in 1 Chronicles 21.1 that's about it.

In Christian hands, the NT has Satan as more the cardboard bad guy, the bogeyman. But nowhere does it say he's lost the 'one of the sons of God' status he has in Job.

So it's all rather a beat-up. Perhaps folklore and John Milton and Hollywood have a lot to answer for.

I don't see that Satan needs to be prayed for. He can always ask his dad for a hand if things get too hot.

 

[DavidFirth]

Ancient Pagans

• As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
• Between 315 and 6th-century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
• Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
• Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]
• Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
• Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
  According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
• In the 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
• In the early fourth century, the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
• The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
  [DO19-25]

Mission

• Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]
• Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children were slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]
• Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]
• 15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]
• 16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heads of all those (of what sort soever they were) which were killed in the daie, should be cut off from their bodies... and should be laid on the ground by each side of the way", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "great terror to the people when the saw the hedges of their dead fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolk, and friends on the ground".
  Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]

Crusades (1095-1291)

• First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]
• Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousand slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousand. [WW23]
• 9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then Turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]
• Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]
• after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then Turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. [WW32-35]
  Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents—save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]
• Marra (Maraat an-Numan) 12/11/98 thousand killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]
• Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (Jewish, Muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
  (In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")
• The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]
• Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of Palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]
• Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]
• Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]
• Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224]
  Note: All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers.

Heretics

• Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus, and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]
• Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]
• Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]
  The Albigensians...viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept Roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]
  Begin of violence: on command of Pope Innocent III (greatest single pre-nazi mass murderer) in 1209. Beziers (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbors and friends) 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]
• Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands were slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]
• subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]
• After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324. [WW183]
• Estimated one million victims (Cathar heresy alone), [WW183]
• Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).
• Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]
• John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]
• University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]
• Giordano Bruno, a Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo de Fiori (Rome) on 2/17/1600.

Witches

• from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.
• in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars, several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged. [WV]
• an incomplete list of documented cases:
  The Burning of Witches - A Chronicle of the Burning Times

Religious Wars

• 15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands were slain. [DO30]
• 1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]
• 1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered the extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain. [DO31]
• 1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]
• 17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'." [SH191]
• 17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]
• 17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]

Really I just dislike the Logical fallacies, contradictions, and misinterpretation of the Old Testament.

oh I dislike the Muslims too, but have less issue with their works since they are more logically sound within their own book, so I take issue only with the book itself than their interpretation. I would DIslike the jew's but they have gotten enough punishment. and keep to themselves quite a bit.

All of that stuff happened a very long time ago, before your lifetime, and yet you still hold a grudge? Is not Christianity more righteous than you are in that Christ is willing to forgive all past sins yet you continue to hold these over our heads well after the facts?

I can tell that you just enjoy making fun of God fearing people in general and gods in general. What if one of these gods turns out to be real? What will you say or do then?

 

[Kenny]

So in Christendom essentially, all things are forgivable. and it is Your job as a Christian to convert people as so they can escape the firey brimstony damnation that is Hell. *besides the fact if most scientists went to Hell it probably has air conditioning by now*

So... Just a quick question.

Why have none of you had the humility the decency the Heart. and soul. to forgive the one Sinner who needed it most? Satan?
I Don't see anyone praying for his forgiveness. and if your sorry self can go drink margarita's and snort coke off a hooker on Saturday and be forgiven on Sunday. I am pretty sure a failed rebel that fell 1000s of years ago can be forgiven.

nor is there a stipulation that angels are not able to be forgiven or that you should only try for those who have the willingness too ask it.
because I know some of you go door to door 6am on a Monday and harass me so if you can go through that trouble you can have the decency of praying for Satan to find forgiveness.

on a side note, I am on a roll today with these morally controversial questions.
Yay me.

Besides the fact that you kinda sound judgmental... here are a couple of thoughts...

1. I don't think he has ever asked for forgiveness
2. I can't say that I have anything against him to forgive... no more than I have to forgive a bee for stinging me.
3. I don't remember reading any scripture about praying for someones forgiveness... forgiveness is already offered.
4. If an angel needs forgiveness... they can talk to God personally since it is Hethat forgivess

I really don't see any controversial question here.

I think I will pray that the eyes of your understanding will be enlightened

 

[Kenny]

oh I dislike the Muslims too, but have less issue with their works since they are more logically sound within their own book, so I take issue only with the book itself than their interpretation. I would DIslike the jew's but they have gotten enough punishment. and keep to themselves quite a bit.

Do you have a love issue?