a letter to the muslims

[chuck010342]

hmmm interesting point lets see here ...........

but, as one of our muslim cousins have pointed out Jesus did prostrate himself before G-d much like earlier jews did and muslims do now

That occured when Jesus was going to be Crucified and go thru that horrible death. If I were going to have that done to me I would of prayed like that.

 

[chuck010342]

According to Islam, 'Isa (Jesus) (as) was not a Christian or a Jew, because the Jews' book was changed, and they believed in things that were untrue

right so why bother with the bible if it is untrue? Or is The bible correct and the Koran is wrong? Would you agree with me that there are only three possibilities. 1. The bible is true, and the Koran wrong. 2. The Koran is true and the bible is wrong. 3. The bible and the Koran are both wrong. Are we also in agreement that the bible and the Koran both cannot be true. I want to clarify this before moving forward.


,

and Christians actually are the people who followed Paul.

Quite right, which is why I"M NOT A CHRISTIAN

A Roman messenger, I think, wanted to know how to report this new religion to the Emperor. He gave the name Christianity, after the name Christos, which is clearly related to Christ, and Paul and his followers were borna. Hence, the Christians were created.

see above

 

[chuck010342]

chuck, if God asked you to do something (and you knew it was Him), you'd obey, right? Muhammed (saas) got the revelation from Allah, so he had no choice but to follow orders.

Yes I would obey, But the Point I am making is teh Muhammed did not get any revelation from Allah. Muhhamed did not get the revelation because the revelation has countradictions within it, and an omnipotent diety would not allow that to happen.(If you want specific verse from the Koran I can give them to you) No revelation was Given to Muhammed because it countradicts in earlier revelation from God. This gets into the discussion about The bible vs the Koran on historical and logical levels. I'm getting into this elsewhere for clarity sake I suggest that you join that conversation

 

[jewscout]

That occured when Jesus was going to be Crucified and go thru that horrible death. If I were going to have that done to me I would of prayed like that.

So there is nothing wrong w/ praying that way then? Since, of course, jesus did pray in that way?

 

[croak]

Muhhamed did not get the revelation because the revelation has countradictions within it, and an omnipotent diety would not allow that to happen.(If you want specific verse from the Koran I can give them to you)

Please do.

So, the 'Isa (Jesus)(as) did not get revelation because the revelation has contradictions in it, according to your reasoning. And don't bother telling me it doesn't, because it does.

 

[_salam_]

Great a love learning new terms. So you worship God in the direction of Mecca. Therefore God is not above matter because he wants to be worshiped in a paticular direction.

No, God is above matter.

Guess what Jesus never said "go to church"

I know, I was only making a comparison.

Okay then answer my question

I'm not sure what your question is.

A muslim telling me what the bible says? Thats fine but why are you doing this? Don't you think that the bible lied to us and that it isn't true?

Ok, just so you know, I was born and raised Catholic. I have gone to church every Sunday. I was actually confirmed Catholic. I have just recently become a Muslim, so I know what Christianity is about. I don't claim to be super knowledgable about the Bible or Christianity but I do have a very good grasp of it, so I would appreciate it if you would not treat me like an idiot when talking about such things. Besides I don't think that kind of behaviour is very Christ like. Also I wasn't telling you what the Bible says (ie. interpretting it to you) I was only showing you what it says in the Bible it self. As far as the Bible being a lie. Within the OT I don't believe that the stories are the same as when they were first written. For the NT I don't believe that the gospels are exactlly what Jesus (pbuh) said. Christians, and yourself (I understand you don't consider yourself a Christian), believe in the gospel of Jesus (pbuh) ACCORDING to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. As a Muslim I believe in the gospel of Jesus (pbuh) ACCORING TO JESUS (pbuh), and since this isn't what is in the Bible I don't take it as the whole truth. I'm not saying that there isn't some truth in the Bible, but rather since it is not the dirrect words of Jesus (pbuh) how are we to know what is true and what isn't.

 

[_salam_]

If YOU are going to tell ME what the bible says I suggest you give me the Verse numbers.

I already gave you the one verse, besides this isn't something I'm trying to make a huge case out of.

 

[_salam_]

right so why bother with the bible if it is untrue? Or is The bible correct and the Koran is wrong? Would you agree with me that there are only three possibilities. 1. The bible is true, and the Koran wrong. 2. The Koran is true and the bible is wrong. 3. The bible and the Koran are both wrong. Are we also in agreement that the bible and the Koran both cannot be true. I want to clarify this before moving forward.

I believe that the Qur'an is true, I already explained how I feel about the Bible so I won't repeat myself.

I would like to know if you believe that the Bible is 100% true, should be taken literally, and whether or not it contains any contradictions in it?

 

[Druidus]

Chuck, don't take this the wrong way, but it seems to me that you started this thread to challenge the validity of Islam. If so, why? Does it really matter what religion they are? Why not leave them be? You have just as much proof in your religion as they have in theirs, and both religions are equally valid. You feel that it doesn't make sense to pray in a specific direction; fine, no problem. Voice your opinion. But that doesn't make their religion any more "wrong". Your God once called for sacrifices. Why? Does this mean she is not omnipotent, because she had to draw power from death? That she is more material then immaterial? No. Just as wanting to be worshipped in a specific direction does not make you any less of a "God".

Also, I am unsure, but I highly doubt that it says "Kill in the name of Allah" in the Qu'Ran.

 

[_salam_]

Chuck, don't take this the wrong way, but it seems to me that you started this thread to challenge the validity of Islam. If so, why? Does it really matter what religion they are? Why not leave them be? You have just as much proof in your religion as they have in theirs, and both religions are equally valid. You feel that it doesn't make sense to pray in a specific direction; fine, no problem. Voice your opinion. But that doesn't make their religion any more "wrong".

Agreed.

 

[Peace]

Yes I would obey, But the Point I am making is teh Muhammed did not get any revelation from Allah. Muhhamed did not get the revelation because the revelation has countradictions within it, and an omnipotent diety would not allow that to happen.(If you want specific verse from the Koran I can give them to you)

Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him got the revelation whether you admit it or deny it. Quran is the true words of God the Almighty and the Truth and it has no contradictions whatever... could you come up with the contraditions you claimed it contains??
If the Quran is not the true word of God and Islam is not the last religion revealed to Prophet Muhammed pbuh, then how come that the Quran is preseved as it was first revealed more than 1400 years ago?
God preserved it because it is the last message for humanity. You know Chuck, you will come to know this truth sooner or later.

Peace

 

[chuck010342]

No, God is above matter.

Then why is God showing paticularity towards a certian direction?

I'm not sure what your question is.

search the threads and you will find them

Ok, just so you know, I was born and raised Catholic.

Thats a problem, but I won't get into that here.

I have gone to church every Sunday. I was actually confirmed Catholic. I have just recently become a Muslim, so I know what Christianity is about.

I have made a point before that Catholics might be christians but they don't follow Jesus. You might know christianity but do you know Jesus?

I don't claim to be super knowledgable about the Bible or Christianity but I do have a very good grasp of it, so I would appreciate it if you would not treat me like an idiot when talking about such things.

I apologize a million times if I ever indicated that you are an idiot or ignorant about such things.

Besides I don't think that kind of behaviour is very Christ like.

What are you talking about here?

Also I wasn't telling you what the Bible says (ie. interpretting it to you) I was only showing you what it says in the Bible it self.

Which is why I wanted verse numbers

As far as the Bible being a lie. Within the OT I don't believe that the stories are the same as when they were first written.

So what we have is the bible being non truth (because it was changed according to your book) therefore it is a lie. It doesn't matter if it was changed or made up by some people sitting around a fireplace one day. I want the truth no more no less.

Another thing I always wanted to know is Where does it stop. Where does the Koran say the bible is wrong and where does it say that it is right. Is there a certain spot where the koran says that it is correct and the rest is true. Or does it say that only certain parts are true.

For the NT I don't believe that the gospels are exactlly what Jesus (pbuh) said. Christians, and yourself (I understand you don't consider yourself a Christian), believe in the gospel of Jesus (pbuh) ACCORDING to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Alright what happened with the NT? why do you think that Mark, Matthew, Luke and John lied?

As a Muslim I believe in the gospel of Jesus (pbuh) ACCORING TO JESUS (pbuh), and since this isn't what is in the Bible I don't take it as the whole truth. I'm not saying that there isn't some truth in the Bible, but rather since it is not the dirrect words of Jesus (pbuh) how are we to know what is true and what isn't.

Thats just the thing we are debating for. You have your views and I have my views about the Bible and about God and about Jesus. I am not interested in different views I want to know the truth.

 

[chuck010342]

I already gave you the one verse, besides this isn't something I'm trying to make a huge case out of.

No offense but if you don't want to make a case out of it then don't say anything.

 

[Sunstone]

I am not interested in different views I want to know the truth.

How can you know the truth without weighing and evaluating different views?

 

[chuck010342]

Chuck, don't take this the wrong way, but it seems to me that you started this thread to challenge the validity of Islam. If so, why?[

To see if Islam is the truth or not.

Does it really matter what religion they are?

No it doesn't matter what religion they are but if there religion is true then I would convert.

Why not leave them be? You have just as much proof in your religion as they have in theirs, and both religions are equally valid.

Is this another case for relativism? If So I really want to start that thread.

You feel that it doesn't make sense to pray in a specific direction; fine, no problem. Voice your opinion. But that doesn't make their religion any more "wrong".

I believe in something called truth and I want to know what is the truth is it found in the revelation to Muhummed or is it found in Jesus. Both of them cannot be true.

Your God once called for sacrifices. Why? Does this mean she is not omnipotent, because she had to draw power from death? That she is more material then immaterial? No. Just as wanting to be worshipped in a specific direction does not make you any less of a "God".

This is Getting WAY of topic how about starting another thread with these questions and I will answer them.

Also, I am unsure, but I highly doubt that it says "Kill in the name of Allah" in the Qu'Ran.

ever hear of a Jihad?

 

[chuck010342]

So there is nothing wrong w/ praying that way then? Since, of course, jesus did pray in that way?

No I don't think there is anything wrong with it. But Jesus prayed in that way because of the circumstances.

 

[painted wolf]

chuck I honestly don't believe you want to know about the validity of Islam. You have already made up your mind and seem to simply want to snipe another faith, IMHO.

wa:do

 

[chuck010342]

I believe that the Qur'an is true, I already explained how I feel about the Bible so I won't repeat myself.

I would like to know if you believe that the Bible is 100% true, should be taken literally, and whether or not it contains any contradictions in it?

Do you think that only those three possibilities are true? you didn't answer me.

The bible is 100% true and should be taken literally most of the time (when it says the mountain claped I don't think thats literal to give an example)

I can honestly say that there are NO countradictions within the bible.

 

[chuck010342]

Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him got the revelation whether you admit it or deny it.

No he did not.

Quran is the true words of God the Almighty and the Truth and it has no contradictions whatever... could you come up with the contraditions you claimed it contains??

Got em lets deal with one at a time okay?

(96:2) countradicts (16:4).

If the Quran is not the true word of God and Islam is not the last religion revealed to Prophet Muhammed pbuh, then how come that the Quran is preseved as it was first revealed more than 1400 years ago?

Your saying that the Quran has never been translated?

Chuck, you will come to know this truth sooner or later.

Peace

I hope I know the truth, and you don't, but I could be wrong which is why I am debating with you.

 

[chuck010342]

Please do.

see my other thread

So, the 'Isa (Jesus)(as) did not get revelation because the revelation has contradictions in it, according to your reasoning. And don't bother telling me it doesn't, because it does.

Jesus did not get any revelation, Jesus is not just a prophet Jesus is the way, the light, the truth. Remeber the Jesus I'm talking about is not the same in anyway as your prophet is.