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Featured A Lesson from Religion or not????

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Bird123, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Do people attempt to manipulate the actions of others by inflicting pain?

    What are they teaching the world and the children?

    Has Religion taught us to do this?

    Is religion really teaching us not to do this?

    What do you think?
     
  2. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    Example?
     
  3. Nietzsche

    Nietzsche The Last Prussian
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    I need a pack of disposable razors, a bottle of bleach and a pack of matches for this demonstration.
     
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  4. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Don't people hit their children? Doesn't society lock people up without really solving the problem? Don't people hate when you don't believe in their religion? Doesn't even War fit into this? What about the idea of Hell? I think the basic idea is all around us. Perhaps, it is easier to attempt the control of others when one makes it hurt if they don't. Don't the better solutions take much more work and maybe intelligence?
     
  5. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Somehow, I think he will do exactly what you want. On the other hand, won't you be teaching him that is the way to do things after he is free from you? He might try this stuff on his kids. I know the neighbors are in trouble.
     
  6. lovesong

    lovesong .little necromancer. .shaman in training.
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    This is all so kinky. :blueheart:
     
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  7. Timothy Bryce

    Timothy Bryce Active Member

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    Lol - a resounding "yes". It's a natural component of the human condition. Live it, love it or get out.

    My answers to your four subsequent questions:

    Most of the Semitic religions seem to impose what I consider to be akin to child abuse by way of what you've described in your OP. This sick aspect needs to be extinguished ASAP IMO.

    Judaism, Christianity and especially Islam need to take a back seat for a few centuries if humanity is to venture anywhere useful and/or meaningful.

    With any luck, a few centuries of ridiculing religion will render it an afterthought.

    Wishful thinking I 'spose.
     
  8. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

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    Religion is generally flexible and ambiguous enough that it is used to teach whatever the people and culture around that religion feel the need to teach.

    You're never going to eradicate people using pain, threats, or intimidation to control and manipulate other people. It's just particularly sad when people use a religion they purport to be peaceful/loving to these ends, and feel completely justified and correct in doing so. The ability to suffer cognitive dissonance doesn't seem to be a widespread human trait.
     
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  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Religion taught me how to connect with family, my family in spirit, and my ancestors. Religion taught me how to live and not to afflict pain on myself or others. Religion influenced me for the good.

    Unfortunately, not everyone uses religion in the same way the rest of us do. Maybe because of bad experiences and/or their religion (or belief system) dictates what is true faith and what is religion. It's a total generalization.

    I can't learn lessons from people who afflict pain on others. I can learn lessons from religions which most I read tell us to do the opposite.

    Religion is teaching us not to do this. We just like to manipulate religion (i.e. people in power, government, Church) for their good at one time or another. That's not religion. That's politics.
     
  10. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Moreso the ability of many to placate cognitive dissonance with answers that wouldn't withstand critical evaluation is half-amazing/half-scarey-as-crap...
     
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  11. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    As mankind grows in knowledge, I see that, in time, religions will become obsolete. On the other hand, it might take a long time before people evolve from the habits taught down through the generations.

    Just as mankind has improved from the caveman days, I see a day when mankind will move beyond the control and submission of others to the nurturing and helping others to attain their maximum potential, all while embracing the diversity that is so important in getting the entire picture of what it's all about.
     
  12. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, mankind likes to control. Using pain, threats, and intimidation is the easiest road, however it does cause problems for many generations to come. Does mankind lack the intelligence or is simply lazy to do things a better way?

    Religion does bring it all out in many. If one believes one has God's blessings, one can justify any action regardless of the consequences. On the other hand, our choices and actions determine what lessons we need to learn. With a correcting or advancing toward knowledge and truth universe, that invites our future scenario to learn and grow. It's not what one believes that counts. It's what one understands.
     
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  13. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    You said that you can't learn lessons from people who afflict pain on others. Perhaps they teach us all what not to do.

    You are right. People see what they want to see. Who they really are and what they really understand comes out in their actions. It does all come down to people.
     
  14. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    We are hardwired that way. Just a fact of life.
     
  15. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    Religion can be a part of that. But, unless 'religion' is at the donut shop etc, I would say that religion can be used but ultimately its the persons responsibility
     
    #15 Disciple of Jesus, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
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  16. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Learned maybe but not hardwired. We do all have a choice of the actions we take.
     
  17. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    You are right. It doesn't matter what we have seen or what we have been taught. Since we all should become more than the sum of our teachings, it still comes down to our choices.
     
  18. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Like everything, there's more to it than just "good" and "bad."
    People can very easily use systems conceived by various religions to manipulate and abuse mankind around them. It is a powerful tool and in the "wrong" hands it can be rather dangerous.
    Used to justify all sorts of abhorrent things.
    It can be used to connect to one's roots and help a person find a sense of some kind of fulfillment,
    Religion is what you make out of it.
     
  19. DragonHawk1959

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    Some attempt to teach by inflicting pain. And after the child learns the parent will inflict pain by threatening to do so again.
    And the child may learn what the parent extended. But the child learns other bigger lessons.
    Might makes right
    You cannot trust ... anyone.
    These are set in place before the child has the intelligence to understand anything else.

    And yes many faiths teach the same.
    God has inflicted great suffering before.
    And he IS GOING TO do so again.
    Moreover he will punish YOU for the sins of another.
     
    #19 DragonHawk1959, Dec 8, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
  20. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, it's more about Understanding than it is about good or bad. When one truly understands all sides, intelligence will make the good choice.

    I do realize that in a multilevel classroom that there are always a diversity of students learning at different levels. Perhaps, it comes down to recognizing what one is actually doing, having been influenced by many sources which also lack full understanding.

    I find Religion likes following. Perhaps, it's better standing on one's own two feet, seeking truth and understanding for oneself. That path requires more Thinking. Contrary to popular belief. Thinking is not dangerous. It is Necessary!
     
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