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A Legal Remedy

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
The section of US code seems to fit the rioting going on. A worthy project for AG Barr!

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

I suspect England was none too happy with the Boston Tea Party either. Maybe the colonies shouldn't have rebelled but here we are.

There are politicians in the government who seem to be encouraging such activity. Civil disobedience in order to encourage a change in government.

To me government is less about what is right or wrong and more about who is capable and willing to enforce.

I am curious about how much enforcement the Feds will be able to bring to bear especially if local government is resistant.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
American history is replete with riots and demonstrations advocating reform, and with the conservative right trying to block it with violence. There was even an attempted coup d'etat; a right wing plot to depose the president, overthrow the government and replace it with a Fascist government.

How are the present, relatively peaceful demonstrations any different from previous reform movements?
Is any attempt at progress, reform or policy change to be interpreted as an attempted coup?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
The section of US code seems to fit the rioting going on. A worthy project for AG Barr!

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government
What preposterous nonsense. There is no evidence that any of the rioting was aimed at "overthrow" of the US government, knowingly, wilfully or not. It was a protest aimed at stopping the police killing black citizens.

Now....the invasion - by gunmen in battle fatigues - of the Michigan state assembly building might have been, arguably. But for some reason you are not concerned about that.:D
 

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
For those too busy, intuitive or sage-like to read the Code text, here it is:

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What preposterous nonsense. There is no evidence that any of the rioting was aimed at "overthrow" of the US government, knowingly, wilfully or not. It was a protest aimed at stopping the police killing black citizens.

Now....the invasion - by gunmen in battle fatigues - of the Michigan state assembly building might have been, arguably. But for some reason you are not concerned about that.:D
Good point. It's usually the far right -- "very fine people" all -- that are most rabidly anti government.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
For those too busy, intuitive or sage-like to read the Code text, here it is:

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
Quite.

That is to say, totally irrelevant to the BLM protests.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
For those too busy, intuitive or sage-like to read the Code text, here it is:

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
This code seems to be a product of the Red Scare, note the date. Scared people tend to get repressive, if not tyrannical.
 
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QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
For those too busy, intuitive or sage-like to read the Code text, here it is:

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

How exactly did you jump to the moronic conclusion that the BLM movement has anything to do with overthrowing the current government? Advocating that the current government change laws or practices that citizens see as wrong or unconstitutional is called exercising one's rights in a democratic form of government. Urging the ouster of government officials who do not represent the will of the people is called exercising one's rights in a democratic form of government.

Are you against democracy and citizens advocating for change in their government?
 

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
I wrote nothing about BLM. Chaos & anarchy can devolve into seditious actions, so maybe using the Code will prevent that.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I wrote nothing about BLM. Chaos & anarchy can devolve into seditious actions, so maybe using the Code will prevent that.
If such chaos and anarchy has not yet devolved into sedition, this part of the code is inapplicable.

You cannot lock a man up because you think he might commit a crime.
 
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