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Featured A Huge Problem for Islam

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    The English word Prophet is used to translate the arabic word Nabi out of no other choice. The prophet as given in the Qur'an is not someone who makes prophecies.

    Also the "prophesying" in the Bible, be it the Tanakh or the NT is not the role of a Nabi in the Qur'an. In the Tanakh there are hundreds and hundreds of prophets and prophesying. Sometimes there are groups of people "prophesying". In Corinthians when Paul refers to man and woman praying and prophesying, does he mean making prophecies about the future? Thus is the translation correct? This is just speaking about normal people you see? The woman who doesnt cover her hair when praying or prophesying is shunned and her head is disgraced, but do you believe this disgraced woman is making prophecies?

    No. This is the wrong idea.

    Nevertheless, the Nabi or Rasool in the Quran is a telegram bringer of God. He of himself can do nothing. He is a mere, mortal man. All divinity rests with God alone. Thats the whole concept of the Qur'an. So the ideas that you have about prophethood and the Nabi/Rasool of the Quran are in fact poles apart.

    Hope you understand.

    Cheers.
     
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  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    in the tanakh the word for prophet is nabiy' and comes from the root word naba'

    in english a prophet of god is a messenger of god


    so then a messenger of god is simply the vehicle through which the divine message is conveyed, or the word of god is delivered. and i agree the holiness rest solely with the ONE essence that permeates all but isn't exclusive or separated from self. god the essence of All is greater than a single man.


    in the tanakh and the new testament they are sometimes referred to as the sons of god, like Jesus
     
    #22 Fool, Sep 29, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  3. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Hebrew for prophet is Navi. Very similar to Arabic. Of course, they are sister languages.

    I was making a differentiation between the Biblical prophet and other people prophesying to the Quranic usage of the word Nabi in relation to your OP.
     
  4. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    so you're say the strong's hebrew lexicon is incorrect?

    the link i provided?
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Brother. Read your own source properly. It will show you very clearly. I am not a Hebrew expert, but this is common knowledge so I can very confidently say that the Hebrew for Nabi, is Navi. Nabi is when you write the Hebrew letters in English, not how you pronounce it. Navi.

    Anyway, bottomline is, the prophet in your mind, and Quran are poles apart.
     
  6. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Baha'is do not beleive that Tom.

    We do not see that 'Seal of the Prophets' means Muhammad was the last Prophet.

    As the OP suggests, the Bible tells of at least 2 more after Muhammad, as the Bible also tells of Muhammad.

    Regards Tony
     
  7. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    so i listened to the pronunciation. its pronounced nah-vee yes but it is written as nayib'. this isn't uncommon with different languages.


    so its cool but again in english there is no huge difference between a messenger of god and a prophet.


    you've got a huge cultural problem. case in point, a culture that exists mostly in snowier climes wouldn't have much in common with a desert culture, or a forest, plains culture.


    the problem is lack of experience with other environments and cultures.
     
  8. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Sorry, I was unclear.
    Baha'i teaches that their prophet is the last, for many centuries at least.
    Tom
     
  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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  10. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Baha'u'llah is far from the Last, but yes the next will come after a full 1000 years.

    That is not unusual though. From Muhammad to the Bab was 1260 years.

    From Christ to Muhammad was 622 years.

    RegardsTony
     
  11. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Oh, I understand that.
    But it's a common thread amongst Abrahamic religionists. My prophet, "Right or Wrong, but My Prophet!" Baha'i isn't different.
    Tom
     
  12. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Then you have not understood the Message of Baha'u'llah.

    We say except God's Word, as God so chooses to send that Word.

    Regards Tony
     
  13. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    If I ever hear a word from God I will totally accept it.

    Humans, telling me which human prophet is God's Official Spokesman, I'll be a lot more critical. Baha'i is better than most Abrahamic religions, but that is not a high bar in the 21st century.
    Tom
     
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  14. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Tom, I see the bar has been raised its highest so far and that is why many hesitate to jump. It is set at everyone's PB.

    In the end, one has to do their best and it is is up to us how high we jump and if we go after a PB

    Regards Tony
     
  15. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    I appreciate that, but quite disagree.

    We've set the bar much higher in the last century. It's called "secular humanism".
    That's where humans, from disparate backgrounds and biases, get together and try to forge consensus on moral behavior. What is best for everyone.
    Based on human wisdom and objective evidence, not just the musings of someone claiming to be delivering yet another Message from Abrahamic God.
    Without providing any evidence that God cares about anything, or even exists. Just another claim to be God's Official Spokesman.

    No, the bar has been raised much higher than Baha'u'llah can reach. Rather like modern biology is beyond Darwin's understanding. Governance has progressed beyond Marx's understanding. Etc.

    We just know more than 19th century people did. The bar is higher now.

    Tom
     
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  16. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I see the Message of Baha'u'llah is the reason we can jump higher than ever before. We have been given further capacity in knowledge.

    But we could do this all day Tom, the difference is, I see all good is from God, no matter where it shines from. So to me it may be an athiest shines brighter than the devoted beleiver, as it is our deeds and not our words that can shine from us.

    Regards Tony
     
  17. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Thats not what I said. Nevertheless, the Nabi or Rasool in the Quran is a telegram bringer of God. He of himself can do nothing. He is a mere, mortal man. All divinity rests with God alone. Thats the whole concept of the Qur'an. So the ideas that you have about prophethood and the Nabi/Rasool of the Quran are in fact poles apart.
     
  18. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Muhammed was very aware of christians and what they believed and interacted with them. Well before he came up with islam. As a kid he also traveled to Syria with his uncle Abu Talib, where they met and interacted with christians as well.

    It's not like he wasn't aware of the abrahamic religions and the stories told therein.
     
  19. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member
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    Yes he was aware of them, but he did not follow any of those religions, just as i said
     
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