Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
Just curious how one can be Hindu and atheist? What is your take on how enlightenment is attained without any deity or force to make it happen? I am not Hindu, so forgive my ignorance.
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A Hindu atheist is not an oxymoron?
- Thread starter Sand Dancer
- Start date
Hinduism is not necessarily based on believing a set of doctrines and/or Gods. Just as the classical Greek and Roman polytheistic religions, the Greek philosophical schools (Cynics, Stoics, Platonists, Epicureans, Aristotelians) and a few of the more established mystery religions will all recognize each other as belonging to "Greco-Roman"-ism [I made up the term] and will talk to each other within the shared context of their civilization, same too goes for Hinduism (with Hind being a term that designates South Asia). Hellenistic Judaism notwithstanding, there is a clear sense in which Judaism did not belong to the family of Greco-Roman religions and philosophies, and this was understood by the people of that time too. Thus Hinduism (as well as Jainism, many forms of Indian/Sri-Lankan/Thai Buddhism, Sikhism) are all speaking within the same tradition, despite their essential differences on how they seek to move it forward.
Next regarding my particular stance. I fall somewhere within what will be called the Nyaya-Vaisesika school of thought of classical Hinduism and the Abhidhamma-Madhyamika school of thought of classical Buddhism. They were to some extent antagonistic schools regarding the nature of reality (to some extent rehearsing the Einstein-Bohr debate on the status of objective reality and how one can know about it...in a different context of course) and I am not entirely sure whether I should choose the phenomenological-nominalism of Abhidhamma-Madhyamika or the substance-property realism of Nyaya-Vaisesika. I am still reading up their works and it will take me a while. I have rejected (tentatively) the strong idealistic emphasis of the Vedanta and Yogacara schools of Hinduism and Buddhism as incommensurate with my experiences and reasoning about the world.
Frequently asked Questions:-
1) Reincarnation is a theoretical model that seeks to explain the behavioral differences that continue to exist between people and animals despite being brought up in the same environment. It is an attempt to explain why people and animals are not born as a psychological "blank slate" and have innate habits and tendencies. The recognition of these facts form a very important part in the rational discourse of ethics in Indian thought. I do not see any theoretical need for continuing to use the model given that those aspects are well explained by modern cognitive psychology, hence the effects that the reincarnation model was supposed to explain can now be explained using cognitive psychology. Regarding the claimed experiences of people (including Buddha) of seeing themselves born in other lives, I will make no comment. There is no injunction on me to believe or disbelieve in the personal private experiences of others within the Hindu tradition unless they can come up with good rational argument for me to believe like them.
2) Karma in indian philosophical and theological literature is the theory of ethical consequentialism and the psychological impact of acting in a certain manner through life. The theory is obviously true as far as this life and the impact of the person on society is concerned (and vice-versa). Since I am yet to hear why I should believe in reincarnation, I have no reason to take it farther than that. I am a minimalist, but even so, Karma is a very effective way of thinking about ethics, meaning and purpose within this observable life...so I see no reason for rejecting it.
3) Hinduism does not require you to believe in gods. Hinduism speaks of 4 correct means that are equivalent in their ability to help a being lead a dharmic life. They are
a) Gnana:- Deep reflection, including systematic reflection on subjective life experiences and philosophical and scientific analysis of objective phenomena. The path of wisdom.
b) Karma:- Way of Self-less action for the greater good as well as striving towards perfection or mastery in any discipline. Path of action.
c) Yoga :- Continued practice of inner meditative experiences to gain insight and realization of the true nature of self. Path of meditation
d) Bhakti :- Loving self-less devotion to an external deity. Path of religion.
One is free to choose and combine them in any way one likes . Crucially since Hinduism does not believe that human beings are in mortal danger in any transcendental sense (yes rebirth can lead to suffering, but it may not and even if so there are literally trillions or second chances in an universe that is eternally existing...and a Hindu may point out that it may be preferable to be born as a pet cat than its harried owner in the 21st century) its not hell-bent on forcing a religious cure to a problem that you personally may not think to be imminent. So it acts as a local pharmacy, you go and ask advice if and only if you have a problem, and not otherwise.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I am a non-dualist. I believe that all things in the universe are constituted by Brahman (physical energy - that is what we started with at the time of Big Bang). No other agency is required for the seeming creation and working of the universe. I have found no evidence to support the existence of God, therefore, I am an atheist. Enlightenment is understanding things. I understand things to a satisfactory degree. It is the desire to know the truch, study to get more knowledge, and the capacity for clear thinking (meditation being useful for this purpose) which will bring enlightenment. Devotion and 'dharmic' action also in the end is abloe to give enlightenment as people gather worldly wisdom. Your questions are welcome.
Depends who is answering. Many think it is an oxymoron, and many don't. We're diverse.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
How does one choose which path to adhere to? There seems to be so many. I have changed my believe in "God" to be a universal spirit kind of thing. I never know if it's wise to call it a god or not. So reincarnation does not a need a "god" to work? Can you suggest some books to help me understand each view and which would be best suited to me? Thanks!
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
I guess I had thought that Brahman was god. Oops. What purpose do the various gods and goddesses serve? Any books I should read to help me understand? Thanks!
Its a personal journey and depends on character of a person. Some people more reflective, others more rational, others more relational. So different aspects of Hinduism appeals to different people, and they often disagree with each other on many fundamental points.
God as an Universal Spirit is superficially similar to the idea of Brahman in the Upanisads. So maybe start with the Upanisads. Here a nice introductory translation that hews a middle ground between scholarship and inspirational.
If a Hindu temple (or community) exists near you, you can go there and observe what is happening. Not a New Age group, that is different.
In my view, we don't choose. We already are, and then we discover what matches. Introductory comparative books would be the best.
For many people, Brahman is God. Some people believe in Brahman, but refuse to call Brahman God, because they limit 'God' to the 'separate from everything' version.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
Sounds good. Thanks!
Subhankar Zac
Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
What is Hinduism?
Interestingly Hinduism has to do more with ancestry and ethnicity than religion.
The term Hindu was a mispronounced word by the Persians for the settlers along the SINDHU (now known as Indus river).
They would call the river as INDOO, keeping the S out.
So, the people who's ancestors lived around the region from the proto Harappan era are Hindus.
It had nothing to with religion or even modern nationality.
Which is a secular nation like India can be called "Hindustan" (land of the Hindus).
It became associated with religion much later.
And as for atheism within the Hindu tradition, it's no oxymoron instead a need of time.
Atheism by definition has to do with reasoning and evidence than outright denial of God.
Charvaka, Samkhya are some examples of schools that denied belief in any supernatural aspect of anything.
I follow and adhere to the bhagavad Gita but also to Buddhism which is atheistic. Today Hinduism as a religion is a mass of religions, not just one dogma, founder and beliefs.
There's no force or fear.
You can believe in one God, msny Gods or none.
It is hard to understand Hinduism by understanding the Abrahamic faiths.
Interestingly Hinduism has to do more with ancestry and ethnicity than religion.
The term Hindu was a mispronounced word by the Persians for the settlers along the SINDHU (now known as Indus river).
They would call the river as INDOO, keeping the S out.
So, the people who's ancestors lived around the region from the proto Harappan era are Hindus.
It had nothing to with religion or even modern nationality.
Which is a secular nation like India can be called "Hindustan" (land of the Hindus).
It became associated with religion much later.
And as for atheism within the Hindu tradition, it's no oxymoron instead a need of time.
Atheism by definition has to do with reasoning and evidence than outright denial of God.
Charvaka, Samkhya are some examples of schools that denied belief in any supernatural aspect of anything.
I follow and adhere to the bhagavad Gita but also to Buddhism which is atheistic. Today Hinduism as a religion is a mass of religions, not just one dogma, founder and beliefs.
There's no force or fear.
You can believe in one God, msny Gods or none.
It is hard to understand Hinduism by understanding the Abrahamic faiths.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Most Hindus take Brahman to be the God / Super soul. My views differ from main-line Hinduism. The first thing I would suggest for reading is the great Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman, etc.