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Featured A grassroots Christians movement joins the fight against Christian Nationalism

Discussion in 'Religious News' started by sun rise, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    I'm cheering them on.

    A grassroots Christians movement joins the fight against Christian Nationalism

    But that changed dramatically on July 29, with a statement of principles announcing the launch of Christians Against Christian Nationalism, spearheaded by the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, under the leadership of Executive Director Amanda Tyler. It was originally conceived as an interfaith initiative, “But we quickly learned that our partners from other faith traditions did not feel as comfortable calling out Christian nationalism as we and other Christian partners did,” Tyler told Salon via email. “Their response initially surprised me, but I quickly saw the power in and the need for us, as Christians, to clean up our house first.”


    The statement called Christian nationalism, “a persistent threat to both our religious communities and our democracy,” warning that “Christian nationalism seeks to merge Christian and American identities, distorting both the Christian faith and America’s constitutional democracy;” that “It often overlaps with and provides cover for white supremacy and racial subjugation;” and asserting that “As Christians, we are bound to Christ, not by citizenship, but by faith.”
     
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  2. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    In Psalm 118 (Greek numbering) we read: "It is better to trust in the Lord, than to trust in mankind. It is better to hope in the Lord, than to hope in princes."

    And in Psalm 145: "Put not your trust in princes, in sons of men in whom there is no salvation. For his breath departs, and he returns to his earth; on that very day his plans perish. But the Lord will reign forever and ever, your God, O Zion, to all generations."

    I've never believed in adhering to any political party or clinging to a politician as if they could save us or fix our society, because they'll all invariably disappoint. A lot of people talk about how they came to be Democrats or Republicans like it's a religious conversion story and that has always really disturbed me. I just hold the political positions I do because they seem to me to be the most practical and most likely to succeed in our society as it exists today.
     
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  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    It is a tuff fight against the dominance of 'Christian Manifest Destiny.' and the associated Divine right of Theodicy in government.

    The separation of Church and state is not clearly defined in the Bible.
     
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  4. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    It is clearly defined in both OT and NT.
     
  5. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Theocracy and Theodicy are clearly defined in the OT and NT. This is what Theocracy and Theodicy among the Evangelical Christians, the Roman Church and at least the Moron Church justify their belief in the Divine right to rule.
     
    #5 shunyadragon, Aug 12, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  6. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    Lol.

    I assume you mean Mormons? I didn't now they or Evangelicals believe in the divine right to rule. With the Catholic Church, it's called the divine right of kings and that's from centuries ago.
     
  7. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    They are as wrong as they can be.
     
  8. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Mormon Church - World government (Mormonism) - Wikipedia

    World government (Mormonism)

    On March 11, 1844, Smith organized a second arm of the organization - the Council of Fifty - which was to work under the direction of the priesthood authority of the church. A third body, the Council of Friends, would also exist.[3] The Council of Friends was to be a three-member body which would function as the political Kingdom of God prior to the Second Coming of Jesus. The Second Coming would usher in the Millennium, a 1000-year period in which world political power would reside with this world government.[4]

    The political and spiritual kingdoms of God were to be distinct entities, with "a constitutional separation of powers between Zion New Jerusalem and the political government (Jerusalem of old)."[4] The Council of Fifty was organized "for the maintenance, promulgation and protection of civil and religious liberty." The council was intended to act in a legislative capacity as a theodemocracy. The council's decisions could be vetoed by the church's priesthood authority.[5] The third leg of the government, the Council of Friends, would act as advisors to both the Council of Fifty, and the priesthood body of the church. All three bodies were to be composed of righteous men.

    The Melchizedek priesthood authority would yield veto power over the Council of Fifty, with ultimate power held by a single anointed individual. Smith was ordained "King" on April 11, 1844, and was thereby set to preside over the political kingdom of God. Smith was killed just over two months later, on June 27, 1844.[6]

    More to follow

    Smith taught that New Jerusalem would be a seat of the Kingdom of God on the earth. The founding of this millennial Zion was so important for early church members that thousands of converts from many different countries sacrificed all they had to aid in the realization Smith’s vision.[7] Smith taught that the New Jerusalem would be located in Jackson County, Missouri.
     
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  9. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Being wrong is a different issue than there is a Biblical basis for their beliefs.
     
  10. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    God took Israel's request to give them a king very negatively and personally. Jesus said he was not of this world, and Caesar's image and a coin of through away value, Paul used all angelic hierarchy an his point of view that Christians to submit to demands as long as they left alone doing Christian business. No love no trust.
     
    #10 leov, Aug 12, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  11. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Protestants used the same idea. Monarchs were seen like Judges, prophet-Kings. To rebel against the monarch was rebellion against God. Henry 8th used this argument to separate the Church from Rome
     
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    This is only the Biblical rule of corrupt secular governments, and not the justification for Divine Rule, which is Biblically based.
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    This is great news.. and clear-eyed.

    “As Christians, we are bound to Christ, not by citizenship, but by faith.”
     
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  14. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

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    May I ask WHY exactly you are cheering them on? At many a church, there is the standard or flag of the cross to the right and a flag of our country to the left. Do you know why this is? It's because we are required to be in the world but not of the world. This means to be dual citizens of the spiritual world which we hope to return to, and the physical world we currently live in. Have you ever been homeless? I ask this because when you allow others to take away your country because you feel guilty about it or hate it, you become without a place to live. I invite you if you hate your country to go to another one. No, not a sanitized tourist visit, look at the bad portions of town and see what's really going on. So before you begrudge others for liking their country, remember people who act against their home are traitors. Such people if they are lucky, get monetary compensation foe doing so, but idealists who think the principles America was built on (Christian principles btw like freedom of religion, the right to defend yourself against the government, to right to speak freely, to right not to have soldiers or police board in your home, and the right to be seen as innocent until proven guilty) are somehow something to feel guilty about, typically get nothing for betraying their country. And they do it in the name of Christianity. No, it's not. Whether virtue or vice, you cannot treat life as a zero sum game (that is to say, there's some balance where either I must fail or you must). Not unless you want it to be a prediction that comes true. Such people when they want to win, must do it by ruining others, and if they want to lose they do so by bringing downfall to their own house and their own country.

    You want to be homeless, be homeless. But it doesn't have to be this way. We can make a world where everyone succeeds. Where in small rural areas rather than simply being envious of Western success, people are taught to farm and raise animals to become self-sufficient. I'd advise looking into Heifer.org as they try to do just that, take the poorest areas of the world and give them animals to raise to help their country and town. No redistribution no handouts, but a hand-up. I also ask you to look into dry farming I think it's called. Places like Israel have managed to turn deserts into a paradise. While nearby countries see fertile land, what they don't see is the effort the Jewish people expended to keep it this way. And the thing is, other countries can do the same. Or they can see life as a zero-sum game (it's me or you, remember) and quickly regret playing.
     
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  15. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Oh please. Israel has destroyed the water table in the Jordan Basin, ruined 2 aquifers and turned the Jordan River into a cess pool.
     
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  16. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

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    I think you're missing the bigger picture. Regardless of aquifers or whatever, Israel also turned a relative desert when they first came back into fertile land. And it's not the first time. Historically Judea was cinquered and often enough that there are legit Bible verses, it always turned back and forth depending on how well managed it is.

    Suppose for a second that the hottest driest areas of the Middle East also had this success story. Or we could bemoan what is probably a result of current problems while overlooking the fact that since its (re)founding in 1948 it has tripled its available farmland (type in "Israel and Agriculture" )
     
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  17. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    By taking water from their neighbors.

    Why do you think Israel has had dozens and dozens of water ministers in the past 70 years? Its called mismanagement.
     
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  18. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    As above so below, on Earth it is a copy, corrupt copy.
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I do not believe God Creates an existence that is corrupt nor becomes corrupt. Creation is as it is, and intended to be by Creation.
     
  20. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    I agree, I think that it is result of Original First Thought. 'Snowball' is rolling downhill...
     
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