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A God of Justice and Equality

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Would unconditional love for justice and equality be a respecter of persons other than on merit for a particular vocation, or skill?


would a parent/guardian love one charge more than another
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
Meh. I'm not really convinced about the idea that an ultimately fair and merciful judge created the reality we exist in. Nothing about nature reflects the qualities of merciful, fair judgement, and instead seems to reflect qualities of exploitation. Predators exploit the weaknesses of their prey. Prey exploit nature to better hide from predators. Plants exploit animals and the forces of nature to spread their seeds.

Even when man interacts with nature, he exploits it. Farmers exploit the land to grow their crops. Both their domesticated plants and animals exist in their current states because man bent nature to his purposes over the span of thousands of years. Fishermen use the bait most attractive to their target fish to catch more/larger fish. Lumberjacks level whole forests and just replant the specific kind of tree they want to harvest in ways that make harvesting easier in the future.

In the greater world, the one outside of man's cares and concerns, I have a hard time seeing where an Abrahamic god fits in.
 

eik

Active Member
Meh. I'm not really convinced about the idea that an ultimately fair and merciful judge created the reality we exist in. Nothing about nature reflects the qualities of merciful, fair judgement, and instead seems to reflect qualities of exploitation. Predators exploit the weaknesses of their prey. Prey exploit nature to better hide from predators. Plants exploit animals and the forces of nature to spread their seeds.

Even when man interacts with nature, he exploits it. Farmers exploit the land to grow their crops. Both their domesticated plants and animals exist in their current states because man bent nature to his purposes over the span of thousands of years. Fishermen use the bait most attractive to their target fish to catch more/larger fish. Lumberjacks level whole forests and just replant the specific kind of tree they want to harvest in ways that make harvesting easier in the future.

In the greater world, the one outside of man's cares and concerns, I have a hard time seeing where an Abrahamic god fits in.

"For the creation eagerly waits with anticipation for God's sons to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God." Roms 8:19-21.

Although this passage is hard to understand, it suggests that creation itself suffers from man's bondage to sin, and that its futility will only cease once the sons of God are revealed on the day of judgement, which is at the second coming.
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
"For the creation eagerly waits with anticipation for God's sons to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God." Roms 8:19-21.

Although this passage is hard to understand, it suggests that creation itself suffers from man's bondage to sin, and that its futility will only cease once the sons of God are revealed on the day of judgement, which is at the second coming.

:shrug: What is there left of god's nature that's represented in broader nature, then?
 

eik

Active Member
:shrug: What is there left of god's nature that's represented in broader nature, then?
God doesn't have an earthly "nature" as he is a spiritual being. I think you are suggesting a pantheistic view of God that is unsustainable.

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made." Romans 1:20

Despite the futility of creation, creation serves the purpose of sustaining life. It's not deniable. Thus the invisible qualities of God are seen in the means of life's sustainment.
 

SigurdReginson

Grēne Mann
Premium Member
God doesn't have an earthly "nature" as he is a spiritual being. I think you are suggesting a pantheistic view of God that is unsustainable.

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made." Romans 1:20

Despite the futility of creation, creation serves the purpose of sustaining life. It's not deniable. Thus the invisible qualities of God are seen in the means of life's sustainment.

So if nothing of the god oh the bible reflects what we can see around us outside of humanly concerns, why should we think he's anything more than a man made concept? It seems like the realms he embodies (justness, fairness, true sacrifice, long-suffering, etc) are things only humans concern themselves with. They don't really exist outside of the constructs we build for ourselves to live in. Seems kind of human/self centric to me, imo.

Pantheism as far as I'm aware is just a concept of many gods under one pantheon. Some reflect aspects of nature, others reflect aspects of the human concepts such as justice and equality.

By the way, why would that view be unsusta
 

eik

Active Member
So if nothing of the god oh the bible reflects what we can see around us outside of humanly concerns, why should we think he's anything more than a man made concept?
I didn't say it didn't "reflect" what we see around us. It does. What I meant by pantheism was a confusion of nature and God. We see power, we see aesthetic beauty, we see harmony, we see life, we see intelligent design. These all reflect God's invisible qualities.

It seems like the realms he embodies (justness, fairness, true sacrifice, long-suffering, etc) are things only humans concern themselves with. They don't really exist outside of the constructs we build for ourselves to live in. Seems kind of human/self centric to me, imo.
In the moral realm, only mankind is created in the image of God to be able to identify with God's spirit. It is not given to animals, who act from natural impulses. Yet even animals can be taught morality, as there is such a thing as an elementary "natural law" - the moral law of God as found in nature itself.

Pantheism as far as I'm aware is just a concept of many gods under one pantheon. Some reflect aspects of nature, others reflect aspects of the human concepts such as justice and equality.
There are two distinct variations of pantheism, one confounding the one God with nature, and the other attributing various aspects of nature to individual gods.

By the way, why would that view be unsusta
For the reason you have already stated: it is anti-intellectual, and a grave sin under Christian theology.

Rom 1:21 "For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things."​
 
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