A goal

[Kalidas]

So I was thinking about "good" and "evil" the other day. (I know this topic has been DONE TO DEATH, just wait for it.) I believe (and I know many others do to) that there is no such thing as "good" or "evil" just varying degrees of ignorance. Lets look at things that are "evil" like rape and murder probably the two most evil things we can think of as humans. Animals do both these actions all the time, yet animals are not "evil"? What is the difference between an animal and human? Our brain, we as humans have the possibility of thinking in higher echelons of intellect, yet I feel some people ignore this and choose to make themselves like animals. They are no more evil than a bear. Now this doesn't excuse their actions or that there are no consequences, just they are not evil just ignorant.

So here is where my "goal" comes from. I want to try this week to not call or think of anyone as "bad" or "evil" or even think of them as being any number of colorful insults you can think of. But rather think of them as they are "Ignorant of the truth". Not ignorant in a "hahah you're stupid" but ignorant in a "Oh that is to bad they don't know, what they are doing."

This is going to be hard for me I work at a grocery store and to be honest there are some people that down right bug me. Yet I think this will help me become a better person myself, so it is well worth it.

 

[Vinayaka]

Speaking of animals ... the other day I was looking out the window while doing sadhana and observed 3 large hares just sitting on the front yard. (Commonly called jack rabbit, our city is home to 1000s of these guys.) The had stopped munching to rest, but what was amazing is how still they can be. When a deer goes on high alert, or a cat is sneaking up on something, they have the ability to be still. I wish IO could be that still for that long during sadhana or meditation.

So are they 'better' than me cause they can sit still, and I can't?

So yea, I essentially agree. It's a matter of animals living in the instinctive mind, and we can opt out of that if we want to.

 

[Kalidas]

Speaking of animals ... the other day I was looking out the window while doing sadhana and observed 3 large hares just sitting on the front yard. (Commonly called jack rabbit, our city is home to 1000s of these guys.) The had stopped munching to rest, but what was amazing is how still they can be. When a deer goes on high alert, or a cat is sneaking up on something, they have the ability to be still. I wish IO could be that still for that long during sadhana or meditation.

So are they 'better' than me cause they can sit still, and I can't?

So yea, I essentially agree. It's a matter of animals living in the instinctive mind, and we can opt out of that if we want to.

Exactly we have the CAPABILITY of thinking above basic animal instincts. I just think some people choose not to.

 

[Vinayaka]

I just think some people choose not to.

Not sure if it's a choice. I know it's an exaggeration, but because of certain medical conditions, certain aspects of the brain can be dysfunctional.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

I have thought about it too, but now I see Shiva and only Shiva.
there are actions that are born of young souls ignorance and ripple the still waters, this is karma that will come back to them. Because what is created is not because of the suffering itself, but because of the bad scars that are impressed deep into the victims and become ultimately a boundary or a hindrance for their current lives or many others. By commiting the act, not only the victim is hurted, but also the doer: he roots himself deeper into the lowest chakras, and he expose his body to more scars that can happen in prison.

When a act that "hurt" is born of ignorance, both the sides are ultimately the victims. It does not benefit anyone, not even the perpetrator.

As for suffering in itself... It is no different than pleasure. Joy is no different of sadness. When I feel pleasure, I drink the pleasure fully, seeing and thinking "Shiva !" . When I am physically hurt, I drink the pain and accept it with great satisfaction, because it is Shiva. When I cry I cry Shiva. When I laught, laught is Shiva. And then deep in the silence and the void of Sadhana, the void is Shiva.
Shiva is pain, pleasure, health and illness, he is life and death like He is man and woman, He is great and tiny, He is what humans consider "bad" and what humans consider "good". There is no "good" and no "bad", just an ocean of possibilities that often young souls disturb and create waves of outcomes that they cannt control.

See God in joy, then feel God inside the pain, then understand joy and pain and put them on a leash, control them and slowly climb out of the boxes of "good" and "bad" that have ultimately few sense. What good ? What bad ? There are only outcomes, consequences, driven by emotions that are borm of ignorance. Working on feelings and emotions is an important step to consider. Controlling the mind is a liveslong exercise that is very helpgul in one's path to Moksha.

 

[Poeticus]

When a act that "hurt" is born of ignorance, both the sides are ultimately the victims. It does not benefit anyone, not even the perpetrator.

A sublime insight, Jaya !​

 

[Kalidas]

I have thought about it too, but now I see Shiva and only Shiva.
there are actions that are born of young souls ignorance and ripple the still waters, this is karma that will come back to them. Because what is created is not because of the suffering itself, but because of the bad scars that are impressed deep into the victims and become ultimately a boundary or a hindrance for their current lives or many others. By commiting the act, not only the victim is hurted, but also the doer: he roots himself deeper into the lowest chakras, and he expose his body to more scars that can happen in prison.

When a act that "hurt" is born of ignorance, both the sides are ultimately the victims. It does not benefit anyone, not even the perpetrator.

As for suffering in itself... It is no different than pleasure. Joy is no different of sadness. When I feel pleasure, I drink the pleasure fully, seeing and thinking "Shiva !" . When I am physically hurt, I drink the pain and accept it with great satisfaction, because it is Shiva. When I cry I cry Shiva. When I laught, laught is Shiva. And then deep in the silence and the void of Sadhana, the void is Shiva.
Shiva is pain, pleasure, health and illness, he is life and death like He is man and woman, He is great and tiny, He is what humans consider "bad" and what humans consider "good". There is no "good" and no "bad", just an ocean of possibilities that often young souls disturb and create waves of outcomes that they cannt control.

See God in joy, then feel God inside the pain, then understand joy and pain and put them on a leash, control them and slowly climb out of the boxes of "good" and "bad" that have ultimately few sense. What good ? What bad ? There are only outcomes, consequences, driven by emotions that are borm of ignorance. Working on feelings and emotions is an important step to consider. Controlling the mind is a liveslong exercise that is very helpgul in one's path to Moksha.

That was beautiful

 

[Kalidas]

Not sure if it's a choice. I know it's an exaggeration, but because of certain medical conditions, certain aspects of the brain can be dysfunctional.

Well yes sometimes it is not a choice I agree.

Sometimes though I think it is a "choice". Not a real choice but choice born of ignorance. We can either actively seek to tear the clouds of ignorance and let put a stop to it, or we can choose to stay blissfully ignorant but risk the consequences.

Here is a terrible example. During the time of the Holocaust there were many people in Germany who worked for the "war effort" making giant oven, gas chambers, even making the concentration camps. Now they were lied to told that these things were not doing what they were really doing, but they knew. Anyone could have said "I choose to no longer keep a blind eye to these actions and find the truth" if enough people had done that who knows how things could have changed. I'm not blaming those people nor am I mad at them. Many of them were in bad situation. Either the threat of being poor and starving to death or sometimes the very real threat of a soldier pointing a gun at family members drove them to not question what was happening. Again no evil here just people choosing to remain blind to the truth.

It's not always a choice, but a lot of times it is. I say choice because it is NOT a choice to be ignorant, but it is a choice to remain ignorant.

 

[Vinayaka]

It's not always a choice, but a lot of times it is. I say choice because it is NOT a choice to be ignorant, but it is a choice to remain ignorant.

That's true for those of us whose brains are functioning properly. We can work to go up, or down in the chakras, depending on will.

I was actually thinking of this example from my earlier teaching days:

I had a student who couldn't seem to get the concept of fair play. he actually felt that he should be first in line, play a game all the time rather than take turns. In other words, besides being a pain, I tried and tried and tried to counsel it out of him. It was to no avail.

He passed away from a brain tumor at age 14. Only then did it all make sense to me.

 

[Kalidas]

That's true for those of us whose brains are functioning properly. We can work to go up, or down in the chakras, depending on will.

I was actually thinking of this example from my earlier teaching days:

I had a student who couldn't seem to get the concept of fair play. he actually felt that he should be first in line, play a game all the time rather than take turns. In other words, besides being a pain, I tried and tried and tried to counsel it out of him. It was to no avail.

He passed away from a brain tumor at age 14. Only then did it all make sense to me.

Yes sometimes the body has problems... and there is no fixing it sadly.

And the story is super depressing I'm going to go cry in a corner now.

 

[Vinayaka]

There's pretty decent evidence for people who can't show remorse, etc. for having dysfunctional brains. But I learned not to jump to concusions about people. There are just so many factors going on.

 

[Kalidas]

There's pretty decent evidence for people who can't show remorse, etc. for having dysfunctional brains. But I learned not to jump to concusions about people. There are just so many factors going on.

There certainly are many many many factors.

thus my goal is only further reinforced. I saw this thing the other day and I loved it. It said "Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you can't possibly understand, be kind to one another."

 

[Vinayaka]

There certainly are many many many factors.

thus my goal is only further reinforced. I saw this thing the other day and I loved it. It said "Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you can't possibly understand, be kind to one another."

Yes, that is the bottom line. I still try to use people's names whenever possible. The other day at a smaller business I mentioned top the cashiers that I wished they had name-tags so I could thank them by name. I don't think the girl had ever been talked to before. But she quipped back to me, "And where's your name-tag?" Just engaging with people is so important in this sometimes cold society.

 

[Kalidas]

Yes, that is the bottom line. I still try to use people's names whenever possible. The other day at a smaller business I mentioned top the cashiers that I wished they had name-tags so I could thank them by name. I don't think the girl had ever been talked to before. But she quipped back to me, "And where's your name-tag?" Just engaging with people is so important in this sometimes cold society.

We wear nametags where I work. Sometimes I wish we didn't, some customers come in with a bad mood and nothing you do will change that and occasionally they like to make our lives harder.

 

[Vinayaka]

"Thanks, Jason," or "Thanks, Deepa" just has so much more power than, "Thanks."

 

[samosasauce]

I believe that is a wise goal

 

[Aupmanyav]

That would be nice, Vinayaka. Another line that comes to my mind 'Bahujana Hitay, Bahujana Sukhaya' (For the benefit of most people, for the happiness of most people). 'Dharma' for me is what sustains, safeguards, the society.

 

[Jainarayan]

I try to remember this (not always successful on the roads in NJ):

If we are all indeed part of God, and God is within all, if you curse out, name-call, harm another person then you curse out, name-call, and harm yourself and God.

 

[Maya3]

I don´t believe that there is evil. Only adharmic actions from ignorance and from frustration due to whatever happens to you in your life. It is very hard to stay calm and not attached if you there is a lot of bad circumstances.
Some people are so far removed from their Self that they cannot feel it at all or at least very little of it.

I remember once before I was Hindu, I spoke to a Christian priest that said that if there is good there has to be evil. I remember asking myself how she came to that conclusion and that it didn´t make any sense.

Vinayaka, that is so sad about your student.

Maya

 

[Kalidas]

I don´t believe that there is evil. Only adharmic actions from ignorance and from frustration due to whatever happens to you in your life. It is very hard to stay calm and not attached if you there is a lot of bad circumstances.
Some people are so far removed from their Self that they cannot feel it at all or at least very little of it.

I remember once before I was Hindu, I spoke to a Christian priest that said that if there is good there has to be evil. I remember asking myself how she came to that conclusion and that it didn´t make any sense.

Vinayaka, that is so sad about your student.

Maya

Well I think the man is "TECHNICALLY' correct. Evil is just an act that a Good person considers evil. Thus I don't really believe in either to be honest, except in the social way. By that I mean there are certain things that are "acceptable" in our society, most of them I adhere to many, some of them I do not.