A Gnostic account of the world (in brief)

[Goldemar]

In my belief system, there is a Great God in a Lightworld (which you can think of as Heaven) and a separate being (Krun) who rules over a separate Darkworld.

The Great God created countless immortal Angels and countless immortal souls/spirits, including human souls/spirits. One of the Angels (Ptahil) created the evil, lower material world against the Great God's Wishes, with the assistance of one of the Darkworld's Demonic inhabitants, Ruha, using material from the Darkworld as a prison for human souls/spirits. Ptahil traps human souls/spirits in his material world and it is for us to learn to free ourselves from attachment to this world over successive lifetimes so that we can return to the Lightworld. We are aided in this by various salvific beings.

Any responses to this account, which is just one very brief Gnostic account of the world, amongst many others out there?

Happy to expand on any point.

 

[Link]

Salam

Thanks for starting this thread.

What is the source of information for this? Is it a holy book from a Prophet or something else?

 

[Goldemar]

Salam

Thanks for starting this thread.

What is the source of information for this? Is it a holy book from a Prophet or something else?

There are both Cainite and Mandaean (Sabian) influences on it, plus my own ideas.

 

[Notthedarkweb]

Idk what to say here man this seems like a mythological account of creation, which is fine, but not sure what you expect by way of opinions except "Well, I simply don't believe this" or "Wow, sounds true".

 

[Link]

There are both Cainite and Mandaean (Sabian) influences on it, plus my own ideas.

Okay, but what is their source of information? Can I see the books if you have a link to them?

 

[Link]

Idk what to say here man this seems like a mythological account of creation, which is fine, but not sure what you expect by way of opinions except "Well, I simply don't believe this" or "Wow, sounds true".

I'll be making my arguments. Just have to reflect a bit and think what Quran says about it. I find anything I reflect about it with Quran, Quran has answers. Then will be posting my arguments/views from Quran.

 

[Notthedarkweb]

I'll be making my arguments. Just have to reflect a bit and think what Quran says about it. Then will be posting my arguments/views from Quran.

Yeah but that's what I am saying. Like this is pure speculative theology, and you either reject it with respect to your own belief in scriptural authority or you don't.

 

[Link]

Yeah but that's what I am saying. Like this is pure speculative theology, and you either reject it with respect to your own belief in scriptural authority or you don't.

Its not like that. Quran always shows reasons, and is not overassertive, you just have to reflect and you will see its arguments for a view or against a view.

 

[Notthedarkweb]

Its not like that. Quran always shows reasons, and is not overassertive, you just have to reflect and you will see its arguments for a view or against a view.

I don't think you and I are disagreeing on this, frankly. If I don't accept the Quran as a basic criterion or epistemic authority (which I certainly don't) for speculative theology (which I dislike in the first place), it would not be very useful in convincing me bar religious revelation.

 

[Link]

I don't think you and I are disagreeing on this, frankly. If I don't accept the Quran as a basic criterion or epistemic authority (which I certainly don't) for speculative theology (which I dislike in the first place), it would not be very useful in convincing me bar religious revelation.

This is not true. But is off-topic, we can discuss the nature of Quran and its insights, and that its not asking to blindly accept what it says but see the truth by it, in another thread. If Quran has even just one component it does not prove, it ceases to be a book of only insights, proofs and signs as it claims. So if you can show one thing Quran wants me to blindly believe, I will reject the Quran right then. Its not like that at all. It proves everything it claims.

Eloquence mostly is witnessed by Arabic speakers and some components in translations. Its miracle nature is not the only way it proves everything it says. Its reasoning and proving everything is different then saying "Quran is a miracle, hence accept everything it says". The latter also has problems in that translations and interpretations can be false and lead to attributing God falsehood.

You have to see and understand. This its true nature.

 

[Notthedarkweb]

I mean, as I said, I don't accept rational theology as a basis for theology in the first place, so I am not really interested in your proposition. But yeah, it is off-topic.

 

[Link]

Salam

@Goldemar I guess what I'm asking for is more readings from teachers of your view as well want to know the foundational sources. I need to read up before I can make arguments or conclusions.

 

[Goldemar]

Idk what to say here man this seems like a mythological account of creation, which is fine, but not sure what you expect by way of opinions except "Well, I simply don't believe this" or "Wow, sounds true".

You could ask for clarifications, pick holes in it, have at it as you see fit!

 

[Goldemar]

Okay, but what is their source of information? Can I see the books if you have a link to them?

With the usual caveats, Wikipedia is an okay place to start.

 

[Link]

With the usual caveats, Wikipedia is an okay place to start.

Okay, you're right. I just thought you had some deep books you can suggest.

 

[Link]

Salam

Two/three (2nd is just paraphrasing 1st) questions.

Why does God allowed this creature to create this world? Why do not the good forces of God just stop them?
Where does this creature derive his power from to create things and bind spirits into bodies?

 

[Goldemar]

Okay, you're right. I just thought you had some deep books you can suggest.

No deep books, but Wikipedia has links to some relevant scriptures (which I don't necessarily follow to the letter).

 

[Goldemar]

Salam

Two/three (2nd is just paraphrasing 1st) questions.

Why does God allowed this creature to create this world? Why do not the good forces of God just stop them?
Where does this creature derive his power from to create things and bind spirits into bodies?

God is not all-powerful in this system so God cannot prevent Ptahil from creating the material world. God created Ptahil with a lot of power, but not more than God. Ptahil cannot create the material world on his own, which is why he needs the assistance of Ruha from the Darkworld (a separate world not created by God).

 

[Link]

God is not all-powerful in this system so God cannot prevent Ptahil from creating the material world. God created Ptahil with a lot of power, but not more than God. Ptahil cannot create the material world on his own, which is why he needs the assistance of Ruha from the Darkworld (a separate world not created by God).

Okay, thanks for letting me know. Why don't the light forces attempt to wage war and free humans?

 

[Daemon Sophic]

In my belief system, there is a Great God in a Lightworld (which you can think of as Heaven) and a separate being (Krun) who rules over a separate Darkworld.

The Great God created countless immortal Angels and countless immortal souls/spirits, including human souls/spirits. One of the Angels (Ptahil) created the evil, lower material world against the Great God's Wishes, with the assistance of one of the Darkworld's Demonic inhabitants, Ruha, using material from the Darkworld as a prison for human souls/spirits. Ptahil traps human souls/spirits in his material world and it is for us to learn to free ourselves from attachment to this world over successive lifetimes so that we can return to the Lightworld. We are aided in this by various salvific beings.

Any responses to this account, which is just one very brief Gnostic account of the world, amongst many others out there?

Happy to expand on any point.

Hi! Welcome to the forum!

OK. Since you are being friendly enough for people to “pick holes” in it, I’ll have a go.

Two major problems right off the bat.
1. The fact that Ptahil has enough power to create a plane of existence against the wishes of the Great God, doesn’t just imply, it clearly dictates that either A. The Great God just ain’t that great, or B. The Great God secretly DID want a Dark World to be created.

2. You suggest that human spirits/souls undergo reincarnation, yet Ptahil, Ruha, and Krun were pretty lousy architects, because their “prison for human souls/spirits” constantly lets them out to be reincarnated.


Again, welcome aboard!