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A fifth force of nature just discovered? It appears so.

exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
Nowhere Man said:
A 'no-brainer Nobel Prize': Hungarian scientists may have found a fifth force of nature - CNN

It kind of makes me wonder what unknown forces, if any, are still out there that we're not aware of yet.

Maybe this would help answer some of the freakish behavior and events we see out in the universe.

Amazing stuff.
Click to expand...
It would be very interesting and perhaps the start of a huge advance, but let's wait for these results to be replicated. Usually such radical findings turn out to be non-replicable.

It seems this is a re-analysis, by theoretical researchers at the University of California, of experimental work done in 2015 in Hungary that showed some anomalous results. The good news is that the experiment (if not the necessarily the results) ought be possible to replicate without undue difficulty, now that people know what to look out for. So, give it a year or two and we may have something, if there is anything there.
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
From the linked article in the OP:

" four forces ... They are gravity, electromagnetism, the weak nuclear force, and the strong force."

Why isn't 'Time' on the list? Time isn't a force?
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
exchemist said:
It would be very interesting and perhaps the start of a huge advance, but let's wait for these results to be replicated. Usually such radical findings turn out to be non-replicable.

It seems this is a re-analysis, by theoretical researchers at the University of California, of experimental work done in 2015 in Hungary that showed some anomalous results. The good news is that the experiment (if not the necessarily the results) ought be possible to replicate without undue difficulty, now that people know what to look out for. So, give it a year or two and we may have something, if there is anything there.
Click to expand...
It's worth noting that when there's a report like t his, it's worthwhile to avoid the sensationalizing media and look for more straight-forward sources. Before I read this comment I looked for and found such a source. Replication experiments were also mentioned in the article I found:

A laboratory experiment in Hungary has spotted an anomaly in radioactive decay that could be the signature of a previously unknown fifth fundamental force of nature, physicists say – if the finding holds up.

Has a Hungarian physics lab found a fifth force of nature?
 
Vee

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Nowhere Man said:
A 'no-brainer Nobel Prize': Hungarian scientists may have found a fifth force of nature - CNN

It kind of makes me wonder what unknown forces, if any, are still out there that we're not aware of yet.

Maybe this would help answer some of the freakish behavior and events we see out in the universe.

Amazing stuff.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there is plenty we don't know yet and we'll never know everything. The universe is truly amazing and I think learning new things is one of the best parts of being human.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Nowhere Man said:
A 'no-brainer Nobel Prize': Hungarian scientists may have found a fifth force of nature - CNN

It kind of makes me wonder what unknown forces, if any, are still out there that we're not aware of yet.

Maybe this would help answer some of the freakish behavior and events we see out in the universe.

Amazing stuff.
Click to expand...

Guess we will have to wait and see. A lot of "maybe's", Might be's" "could have been's" etc in the article.
I'm sure it will be interesting either way.
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
dybmh said:
From the linked article in the OP:

" four forces ... They are gravity, electromagnetism, the weak nuclear force, and the strong force."

Why isn't 'Time' on the list? Time isn't a force?
Click to expand...
That's right. It's not.

Actually when the popular press speaks of "four forces" they mean four types of interaction: Strong Nuclear, Weak Nuclear, Electromagnetic and Gravitational. Each of these interactions manifests itself in forces exerted by one entity on another one.

Time is another kettle of fish entirely. Time is a coordinate, a bit like distance along some axis. Time exerts no force on objects.
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
The last I read, it's not so clear. While this is the second time the lab that found it performed an experiment that yielded the same results - and that was after performing it on a different material, and it passed a light round of peer review, there hasn't been any independent lab that was able to yield the same results. Also this particular lab has made a number of similar claims in the past that haven't been born out.

Edit: Sorry guys, this is my area. It just came up in my Google thing, so I happened to read the article. I'll head back to the religion side of the aisle now.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Tumah said:
The last I read, it's not so clear. While this is the second time the lab that found it performed an experiment that yielded the same results - and that was after performing it on a different material, and it passed a light round of peer review, there hasn't been any independent lab that was able to yield the same results. Also this particular lab has made a number of similar claims in the past that haven't been born out.

Edit: Sorry guys, this is my area. It just came up in my Google thing, so I happened to read the article. I'll head back to the religion side of the aisle now.
Click to expand...
Damnit, I thought you are the fifth force of nature.
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Nowhere Man said:
A 'no-brainer Nobel Prize': Hungarian scientists may have found a fifth force of nature - CNN

It kind of makes me wonder what unknown forces, if any, are still out there that we're not aware of yet.

Maybe this would help answer some of the freakish behavior and events we see out in the universe.

Amazing stuff.
Click to expand...

Well, *if* this is replicated by other labs, it would be a breakthrough. At this point, we don't have any independent lab showing such anomalies, so it is best to be cautious here.

There have been many anomalies in the data that have suggested some new particle or force and, so far, they have all disappeared when more data was gathered.

Maybe this one will be different. The fact that it is at a 6.8 standard deviation certainly makes one sit up and take notice. I suspect we will have other labs trying to replicate these results at which point the situation will be much more clear.

Correction: the 6.8 standard deviation was from the 2016 data. The current has a SD of 7.2.

We definitely need confirmation.
 
Last edited:
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Polymath257 said:
No. No more than space is.
Click to expand...
It occurs to me that space time could be treated as a force
when inflation is faster than light.

Note:
I have absolutely no understanding of that phenomenon.
But things can get so messy that even the most ignorant
speculation might have merit...accidentally/inadvertently.
 
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