A few words to the wise

[QuestioningMind]

Most of us would like to think that we can indulge in life's pleasures and also have cozy conversations with God at the same time. But this is not the way it works. God created the world as we know it as a kind of kindergarten for people who haven't gotten tired of the sand box yet. So, we can certainly party hard and enjoy life like the masses of humanity out there. If on the off chance someone wonders if there is more to life, then the answer is an emphatic "yes!"

Put differently, God reveals itself to those who want God more than their favorite pleasures. And no, not the pleasures themselves, but the attachment to those pleasures. That's why.

Why would your god not want people to indulge in life's pleasures and enjoy life? And since everyone experiences pain and disappointment, I don't think anyone believes that life is nothing but pleasure and joy. However, it's by seeking out the pleasures and joys of everyday life that we create a life worth living. Why would your god only converse with you if your life is without pleasure or joy? Furthermore, why would you want to converse with a god that insists you live a life without pleasure or joy? Personally, I would avoid such a god at all costs. To me life is precious, it's meant to be celebrated and enjoyed to the fullest.

 

[Vichar]

If you ever seen the yin yang symbol you would notice a speck of black where the white fishes eye is as well as the white eye in the black fish. This is what causes the attraction to the other side. There is no yin without yang, there is no light without knowing darkness. loss of Identity is related to loss of free will and with teachers that point to finding the light that's within you and the secrets of finding it being removed from reaching those who need that understanding the most then learn the best ways to teach that yourself if this is your awareness. That which you despise in another make sure you first correct it in yourself.
Don't get caught up loving to hate and hating to love. We are thrown a lemon ....lets make lemonade out of it. Learn how to make friends out of your enemies. Be a peacemaker and you truly will be called a Son (or Daughter) of God both of you.

Your post is excellent advice. I apologize if I sounded critical; I did not mean to be. The discussion was around free will, and I was simply stating what I believed to be true: free will exists, but most people don't choose to exercise it. Without actually pointing to specific people and saying they were robots without free will, I did not think I was trying to offend anyone.

I did not write it to imply a feeling of superiority over anyone; far from it. In my own daily spiritual practice, I have to constantly remind myself to remember who I am in the moment. A person can be a doctor, a husband, a father, a guitar player, a seeker of truth. While most of us feel like we are choosing between chocolate or vanilla flavored ice cream, I would suggest that it is more important to choose what identity we relate to in each moment. God is waiting for us to realize we are soul first and foremost, and the other identities are simply things we can put our attention upon. This is really the only choice that matters to me. The identity we choose in each moment determines what we are able to think, feel, and do. If you are playing tennis, and cannot see your serve going into the box, it will not. If you think you are someone who cannot know what the truth is, then you are someone who cannot know what the truth is. That is how powerful this basic principle is.

Regarding yin and yang, the duality of existence, positive and negative, "good" and "evil", only exist to distract us and make us want to embrace "good" and reject "evil." But doing so (in my opinion) does not bring us closer to God. Love, soul, and God transcend our human ideas about good and bad.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Why would your god not want people to indulge in life's pleasures and enjoy life? And since everyone experiences pain and disappointment, I don't think anyone believes that life is nothing but pleasure and joy. However, it's by seeking out the pleasures and joys of everyday life that we create a life worth living. Why would your god only converse with you if your life is without pleasure or joy? Furthermore, why would you want to converse with a god that insists you live a life without pleasure or joy? Personally, I would avoid such a god at all costs. To me life is precious, it's meant to be celebrated and enjoyed to the fullest.

I understand your view on this post In my understanding, God don't take away pleasure, but ask mankind to not cling to it, to not have attachments to it, so if it was taken away, we would not feel we missed it and become depressed, or in need of more.

 

[Vichar]

Why would your god not want people to indulge in life's pleasures and enjoy life? And since everyone experiences pain and disappointment, I don't think anyone believes that life is nothing but pleasure and joy. However, it's by seeking out the pleasures and joys of everyday life that we create a life worth living. Why would your god only converse with you if your life is without pleasure or joy? Furthermore, why would you want to converse with a god that insists you live a life without pleasure or joy? Personally, I would avoid such a god at all costs. To me life is precious, it's meant to be celebrated and enjoyed to the fullest.

Well, it's not my God per se. And of course God wants us to enjoy life to the fullest. Perhaps an analogy would be helpful here.

I am raising a two year old daughter. Sometimes she wants orange juice. Now, I want her to enjoy the orange juice, of course, and I know she needs the vitamin C. But I also know that orange juice has a lot of sugar in it, and childhood obesity is a real thing (no, it really is). So after she's drunk enough OJ for the day, I don't give her any more, no matter how much she whines or begs or pleads or cries. Especially if she is crying. My reasoning is twofold:

1) A human being who thinks that whining and crying and complaining is the way to accomplish anything is sadly mistaken. Each time we throw a fit and actually get what we want, we are weakened. What is weakened? Our willpower, our ability to think clearly, and our personal discipline are weakened every time we indulge senselessly.
2) Once 100% daily allotment of vitamin C is reached, there is no more need to drink orange juice that day. Being able to enjoy things in moderation without wanting more is not just good for the body, it is also good practice for controlling ourselves. Good judgment sounds great as a principle, but I would suggest hardly anyone exercises good judgment from moment to moment. Almost everyone is just running blindly after pleasure without thought for consequences, lifelong goals, or long term planning, to say nothing about spirituality.

A person without self-discipline is just a slave to their desires, a robot who runs from pleasure to pleasure while lacking the rationality to understand moderation, chastity, good judgment, and grace. It's not that "my God" doesn't want me to enjoy myself, it is more that there are stages to our multiple lifetimes, things we learn from stage to stage. See, I'm hoping my daughter will mature emotionally with my help and guidance. She has to learn how to talk to other people without trying to get something out of them. She needs to learn how to share, how to listen, and how to love others for who they are. She is never going to do this if she cannot first learn to direct her attention.

So "my God" sticks me into a human body so I can learn about cause and effect. If I eat too many simple carbohydrates, I'm going to get fat and maybe die earlier of heart disease. If I sleep around a lot, I'm going to create karma with other human beings as I train wreck from one relationship to the next. If I cut people off on the freeway, maybe I get into an accident and end up killing someone (also creates karma). I can go on and on about the mess we make for ourselves as human beings before we can think clearly and exercise good judgment.

OF COURSE YOU SHOULD ENJOY LIFE. Enjoy it as much as you can. However, I would like to humbly suggest that different people are at different stages of their spiritual journey. A person only becomes a true seeker once they are tired of the mundane joys that a human life can offer: food, sex, wealth, fame, the adoration of peers. Maybe we'll throw distractions like video games and Netflix in there. If a child is ready for addition and subtraction, let's do that. If a child is ready for calculus, let's go take a class on calculus. If a human being is ready for spirituality, then they are ready to talk about discipline, which is nothing more than the conscious ability to direct attention. More spiritually mature people become able to decide what to put their attention on. It's very powerful. If you think about chocolate, if you have matured spiritually you do not have to run out to eat chocolate. You can stay focused on whatever it was you were doing.

EDIT: Put differently, it is not the pleasures we seek that are "bad,' it is our attachment (and slavery) to them. You can only put your attention upon so many things, and if the attention is placed upon chocolate your love of chocolate grows. If you place it on God, your love of God grows. And if you place it on chocolate, you are not placing it on God, and if you are going about your day ignoring God, why should God give a rat's *** about you?

As a little tantalizer, most people cannot get real, tangible spiritual results because they are unable to concentrate their spiritual energies at the tisra til. There is no hope of real spiritual progress to realize the true self without clear thinking, discipline, concentration, and spiritual love (not the lower attachment of co-dependent love).

 

[Mychael]

Your post is excellent advice. I apologize if I sounded critical; I did not mean to be. The discussion was around free will, and I was simply stating what I believed to be true: free will exists, but most people don't choose to exercise it. Without actually pointing to specific people and saying they were robots without free will, I did not think I was trying to offend anyone.

I did not write it to imply a feeling of superiority over anyone; far from it. In my own daily spiritual practice, I have to constantly remind myself to remember who I am in the moment. A person can be a doctor, a husband, a father, a guitar player, a seeker of truth. While most of us feel like we are choosing between chocolate or vanilla flavored ice cream, I would suggest that it is more important to choose what identity we relate to in each moment. God is waiting for us to realize we are soul first and foremost, and the other identities are simply things we can put our attention upon. This is really the only choice that matters to me. The identity we choose in each moment determines what we are able to think, feel, and do. If you are playing tennis, and cannot see your serve going into the box, it will not. If you think you are someone who cannot know what the truth is, then you are someone who cannot know what the truth is. That is how powerful this basic principle is.

Regarding yin and yang, the duality of existence, positive and negative, "good" and "evil", only exist to distract us and make us want to embrace "good" and reject "evil." But doing so (in my opinion) does not bring us closer to God. Love, soul, and God transcend our human ideas about good and bad.

While I was offline I was inspired to write this because of our discussion check it out you and a few others inspired me to try....here it is

Your very own Light is something that is not taught to our young that well anymore
Never finding it soon enough can be the cause of the world destruction's core
Your true identity will be found if you search out this fact
Don’t wait any longer, now it is the time to act
If you don’t your life can be filled by the many woes
By following someone else’s carrot in front of your nose
You will be a slave to another’s prosperity
And in a city you only will see your future success
You’ll be subjected to famine, disease, war and insanity all at its best
See if you can put down the artificial light and life everyone else has embraced
If not our societies destruction will come about and slavery for the human race
The spirit of the moment will use you as its very own tool
The violence and destruction infecting most with the spirit of a fool
And even though conscience won’t see what they are doing is not right
Their subconscious follows the universal law for all that don’t serve their proper Light
The payment is required when the toll line is reached its goal
Compounding in the loss of life, light and soul.

 

[Vichar]

I understand your view on this post In my understanding, God don't take away pleasure, but ask mankind to not cling to it, to not have attachments to it, so if it was taken away, we would not feel we missed it and become depressed, or in need of more.

I cannot upvote this comment enough. God doesn't care if we indulge in pleasure, per se, but like a child who can't stop playing in the sand, God is waiting for us to come inside and eat dinner. Attachment is what pollutes the mind and prevents clear thinking. It paralyzes us, making us unable to pull our attention away from mundane things. Consider: someone people want chocolate so badly that once "chocolate" flashes in their mind they can't think about doing anything until they have gotten their chocolate fix. If you don't care for chocolate, let's sub in sex, or video games, taking candy from babies, or browsing religious forums.

For those of you with the opinion that God wants us to enjoy ourselves as much as possible, you are really just looking for an excuse to let your mind continue to indulge instead of taking up responsibilities that are waiting for your attention. Let's play in the sand box for an hour, and afterwards we should go inside, wash our hands, and get ready for dinner. Dinner in this analogy is preparing for the spiritual life, in case that wasn't obvious.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I cannot upvote this comment enough. God doesn't care if we indulge in pleasure, per se, but like a child who can't stop playing in the sand, God is waiting for us to come inside and eat dinner. Attachment is what pollutes the mind and prevents clear thinking. It paralyzes us, making us unable to pull our attention away from mundane things. Consider: someone people want chocolate so badly that once "chocolate" flashes in their mind they can't think about doing anything until they have gotten their chocolate fix. If you don't care for chocolate, let's sub in sex, or video games, taking candy from babies, or browsing religious forums.

For those of you with the opinion that God wants us to enjoy ourselves as much as possible, you are really just looking for an excuse to let your mind continue to indulge instead of taking up responsibilities that are waiting for your attention. Let's play in the sand box for an hour, and afterwards we should go inside, wash our hands, and get ready for dinner. Dinner in this analogy is preparing for the spiritual life, in case that wasn't obvious.

Wise words

 

[Vichar]

I assume you mean these in a metaphoric sense. If that is so, why did god create evil and why does he need to use it? Why can't he achieve his results exclusively through benevolent means?

I actually asked myself this question when I was younger. After some experience I now believe I understand the reason. If all of use responded well to positive reinforcement, then yes, benevolent means would be fully sufficient.

I have a two year old daughter. I shower her with love and affection. She's very fond of hugs, and I am more than happy to give them whenever she wants them. I don't hesitate to tell her how much she is loved. I praise her when she tries her best. But she doesn't like to listen to her parents. She throws tantrums when she doesn't get her way. She thinks that if she simply cries enough, we will eventually cave in and give her what she wants. We wouldn't dream of putting a hand on her but I have scolded her before when I thought it was necessary. I scolded her when I thought she might seriously injure herself, and I reprimanded her when she smacked her mother on the head when she was unhappy. (For example, we don't let her run out into the street. She has to hold our hand and stay on the sidewalk.) She's super, super smart but pretends to have selective hearing and likes to talk over us when we want to say something serious to her. I know she's only two, so I try to be very careful about when I scold her (I've only done it a handful of times). We are very understanding, but I think we'd be negligent as parents if we never corrected her.

For my own part, I had to audacity to think that I myself respond best to positive reinforcement. But I've had to learn the hard way; I didn't even know how arrogant I was and how deluded until life started smacking me around a bit. I can now see situations where I am negligent or when I procrastinate. The fact that negative reinforcement is necessary says more about us than it does about God, in my opinion.

At this point you might be thinking: OK, well, if God created everything God could have just created people so they never need negative reinforcement. To be honest, I think that at higher stages of spirituality positive and negative don't have meaning anymore. Everything just simply is. Human beings are the ones who assign values to everything. Something happens, if we don't like it we think it is "evil" or "bad." In my opinion, people start out like children and don't understand how to be responsible, how to think clearly, or how to make good decisions. Maybe there were other versions of this world where God just showered love on us and we ended up being spoiled and childish. Maybe at that point God thought the only way to make us self-sufficient individuals was to let us see the results of our own poorly considered actions.

In my opinion, the current system we have is perfect. Karma ensures that everyone gets exactly the experiences they need and deserve. A soul can spend as much time as they like going after what they desire and God is more than happy to indulge us. Like children, we whine about being able to do "whatever we want to" and God lets us have our way. Oh, you don't like how driving recklessly ended up in a car crash huh? Oh, you don't like how not studying led to difficulty finding a job? Oh, you don't like how sleeping around made it difficult to find a good husband later on? To put it simply, we humans are in the remedial class, and the world is the way it is so we can learn cause and effect. There isn't any "evil" in the world, only a lack of understanding.

 

[Twilight Hue]

As gold is made pure by being put into fire in a furnace, so are people through the fires of the trials of adversity and hardships.

Gold is an element. Au on the periodic table. It can't be made more pure then it already is no matter what you do.

Perhaps there's a lesson in there somewhere. Like stop being so hard on yourself. ;0)

 

[Revoltingest]

But if someone strikes me, I'm not turning the other check, I am a woman, and I learned some vicious mind games from my mom.

If you mean "cheek" instead of "check", I recall a commandment
from the Satanic Bible....
"If a man smites thee on one cheek, smash him on the other."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Karma ensures that everyone gets exactly the experiences they need and deserve.

Ah, yes, how wonderful that if someone has misfortune or suffers, they "earned" and "deserve" it. The words of the Righteous, always so eager to listen and willing to understand.

 

[Vichar]

Ah, yes, how wonderful that if someone has misfortune or suffers, they "earned" and "deserve" it. The words of the Righteous, always so eager to listen and willing to understand.

Warning bells are going off after I read what you wrote here. If you don't think suffering is a necessary part of the human experience, then you are going to be in for a very rough patch in your journey. These wisest travelers embrace hardship like an old friend. Spiritual journeymen call them "blessings," recognizing them as the material which hardens and tempers the soul to become strong and pure.

If a person runs away from their problems, runs away from pain and suffering, they are never going to grow the spiritual backbone needed to stand up to life's problems, much less a spiritual crisis of identity.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Warning bells are going off after I read what you wrote here.

Warnings that someone would rather hear someone out, and try to understand why they have the problems they do rather than denounce them as having deserved and earned it? Truly, that is not always the case. A great example would be my older [half] siblings, who's father was murdered on Christmas morning when they were still children. They did nothing to deserve that it, it was entirely unearned, and yet they suffered and still to this day have unresolved issues.

If you don't think suffering is a necessary part of the human experience, then you are going to be in for a very rough patch in your journey. These wisest travelers embrace hardship like an old friend. Spiritual journeymen call them "blessings," recognizing them as the material which hardens and tempers the soul to become strong and pure.

Hardships are a necessity in life. Things that are worthwhile are often not easy.
Suffering is something entirely different, and where it occurs there is something wrong, something likely not necessary.

 

[Vichar]

Warnings that someone would rather hear someone out, and try to understand why they have the problems they do rather than denounce them as having deserved and earned it? Truly, that is not always the case. A great example would be my older [half] siblings, who's father was murdered on Christmas morning when they were still children. They did nothing to deserve that it, it was entirely unearned, and yet they suffered and still to this day have unresolved issues.

Hardships are a necessity in life. Things that are worthwhile are often not easy.
Suffering is something entirely different, and where it occurs there is something wrong, something likely not necessary.

I have already stated that I don't believe anything happens without a reason. I believe in the individuality of the soul but I also believe we are all connected in spirit. We like to think of ourselves (a human being) as single creature, but really we are made up of an entire universe of little parts. I think nothing of the hairs that fall off my head or the millions of cells replaced each week by my body, but I'm sure if those cells could think the way I do they'd have a much different attitude about it. To God, we are all part of its universal body, and believe me when I say we matter way more to God than each of those cells matter to us. Perhaps God knows what is best for each of us despite us not being in agreement. As for someone's father being murdered on a specific day, I cannot say what an event means to someone else. Do you know what happened in each of those peoples' past lives? How are the scales to be balanced? Perhaps you older siblings were themselves the murderers in their previous lives and are now being shown directly the impact of what it means to lose someone close to them. But so many children all over the world grow up without a parent or any parents at all. Is it that it has no meaning, or is it that you do not understand the meaning of it? Is it truly unnecessary, or is it that you have turned your face away from it and declared it unfair? Would you like to be God for a day and preside over what is or what is not fair? If you've ever taken on a leadership role in an organization, you probably already know how difficult it can be to make decisions which affect the lives and livelihood of other people. It's an intimidating responsibility and a difficult one to navigate. How much more so for God, who has to oversee all aspects of this creation? Can you see all causes to their final ends to know what is or what is not unfair or unnecessary?

I have felt angry and frustrated at what I have perceived to be the unfairness in the world. I've been the victim of abuse in my childhood and it wasn't a fun time. From my experience, getting angry about outer circumstances is not a productive avenue for my attention. Instead of trying to change the karmic path of other people, now I focus on understanding the meaning of what I have experienced and try not to rob others of the lessons they must face themselves. I'm not rationalizing, nor am I trying to interpret anyone else's experience for them. Rather, I'm saying that I recognize priorities in my own life, and I've moved forward the fastest along my personal spiritual journey when I have focused on the thing which really needs regulating: my own attitude and attention. Those are ultimately what I have control over, and I believe this is the lesson God wants me to learn.

So yes, I agree that suffering is unnecessary, but probably not in the way you intended. Suffering is in the mind of the one suffering. If one learns to control the attitude and attention, suffering disappears entirely. Outer circumstances become entirely irrelevant.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Suffering is in the mind of the one suffering. If one learns to control the attitude and attention, suffering disappears entirely. Outer circumstances become entirely irrelevant.

A lot of it is actually in my left knee and general abdominal area.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Well, it's not my God per se. And of course God wants us to enjoy life to the fullest. Perhaps an analogy would be helpful here.

I am raising a two year old daughter. Sometimes she wants orange juice. Now, I want her to enjoy the orange juice, of course, and I know she needs the vitamin C. But I also know that orange juice has a lot of sugar in it, and childhood obesity is a real thing (no, it really is). So after she's drunk enough OJ for the day, I don't give her any more, no matter how much she whines or begs or pleads or cries. Especially if she is crying. My reasoning is twofold:

1) A human being who thinks that whining and crying and complaining is the way to accomplish anything is sadly mistaken. Each time we throw a fit and actually get what we want, we are weakened. What is weakened? Our willpower, our ability to think clearly, and our personal discipline are weakened every time we indulge senselessly.
2) Once 100% daily allotment of vitamin C is reached, there is no more need to drink orange juice that day. Being able to enjoy things in moderation without wanting more is not just good for the body, it is also good practice for controlling ourselves. Good judgment sounds great as a principle, but I would suggest hardly anyone exercises good judgment from moment to moment. Almost everyone is just running blindly after pleasure without thought for consequences, lifelong goals, or long term planning, to say nothing about spirituality.

A person without self-discipline is just a slave to their desires, a robot who runs from pleasure to pleasure while lacking the rationality to understand moderation, chastity, good judgment, and grace. It's not that "my God" doesn't want me to enjoy myself, it is more that there are stages to our multiple lifetimes, things we learn from stage to stage. See, I'm hoping my daughter will mature emotionally with my help and guidance. She has to learn how to talk to other people without trying to get something out of them. She needs to learn how to share, how to listen, and how to love others for who they are. She is never going to do this if she cannot first learn to direct her attention.

So "my God" sticks me into a human body so I can learn about cause and effect. If I eat too many simple carbohydrates, I'm going to get fat and maybe die earlier of heart disease. If I sleep around a lot, I'm going to create karma with other human beings as I train wreck from one relationship to the next. If I cut people off on the freeway, maybe I get into an accident and end up killing someone (also creates karma). I can go on and on about the mess we make for ourselves as human beings before we can think clearly and exercise good judgment.

OF COURSE YOU SHOULD ENJOY LIFE. Enjoy it as much as you can. However, I would like to humbly suggest that different people are at different stages of their spiritual journey. A person only becomes a true seeker once they are tired of the mundane joys that a human life can offer: food, sex, wealth, fame, the adoration of peers. Maybe we'll throw distractions like video games and Netflix in there. If a child is ready for addition and subtraction, let's do that. If a child is ready for calculus, let's go take a class on calculus. If a human being is ready for spirituality, then they are ready to talk about discipline, which is nothing more than the conscious ability to direct attention. More spiritually mature people become able to decide what to put their attention on. It's very powerful. If you think about chocolate, if you have matured spiritually you do not have to run out to eat chocolate. You can stay focused on whatever it was you were doing.

EDIT: Put differently, it is not the pleasures we seek that are "bad,' it is our attachment (and slavery) to them. You can only put your attention upon so many things, and if the attention is placed upon chocolate your love of chocolate grows. If you place it on God, your love of God grows. And if you place it on chocolate, you are not placing it on God, and if you are going about your day ignoring God, why should God give a rat's *** about you?

As a little tantalizer, most people cannot get real, tangible spiritual results because they are unable to concentrate their spiritual energies at the tisra til. There is no hope of real spiritual progress to realize the true self without clear thinking, discipline, concentration, and spiritual love (not the lower attachment of co-dependent love).

And of course God wants us to enjoy life to the fullest

But that's not what you stated in your original post. You said that it's impossible for people to enjoy the pleasures of life and ALSO be in communication with god.

You can only put your attention upon so many things, and if the attention is placed upon chocolate your love of chocolate grows. If you place it on God, your love of God grows.

I love the sound of a child's laughter and I love the look on a child's face when they learn something new. I love the feel of warm sunshine on my face and I love my family and the people in my life. I love the sensation I get when I create a new story or piece of artwork. I focus my attention on the things that I love. However, I can't focus my attention for long on a hypothetical god being for which I have no verifiable evidence even exists.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I understand your view on this post In my understanding, God don't take away pleasure, but ask mankind to not cling to it, to not have attachments to it, so if it was taken away, we would not feel we missed it and become depressed, or in need of more.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me. I get great pleasure out of feeling warm sunshine on my face. If for some reason I was suddenly denied ever feeling that sensation again I would definitely miss it. In fact, if it were taken away and I didn't miss it that suggests that I didn't really get any pleasure out of it at all, that it was just a neutral sensation and that feeling warn sunshine on my face is no different to me than not feeling warm sunshine on my face.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony you have a greater knowledge of where the sayings originated on earth than I would as I collected these words and saying over the last 40 or 50 years and never wrote down the sources. I attributed them to the Holy Spirit as It guided me and could be said was the inspiration for all those who wrote them originally.
Although I have authored most of my writings myself I never claimed these "words to the wise," as my own nor would I only that I thought they could be used to help others
My apologies.

The great thing Mychael is the Google search.

I would agree with you that we are inspired to all good by God via the Holy Spirit. I see this is the ability of all people of all Faiths.

I see that the source, the Holy Spirit is from our One God.

No apologies needed, but RF does require us to attribute quotes to sources and for me I, know I am not a source, but can only can share all the good that has come from God's Messenger's.

Stay well, stay happy, Regards Tony

 

[Vichar]

And of course God wants us to enjoy life to the fullest

But that's not what you stated in your original post. You said that it's impossible for people to enjoy the pleasures of life and ALSO be in communication with god.

You can only put your attention upon so many things, and if the attention is placed upon chocolate your love of chocolate grows. If you place it on God, your love of God grows.

I love the sound of a child's laughter and I love the look on a child's face when they learn something new. I love the feel of warm sunshine on my face and I love my family and the people in my life. I love the sensation I get when I create a new story or piece of artwork. I focus my attention on the things that I love. However, I can't focus my attention for long on a hypothetical god being for which I have no verifiable evidence even exists.

Well then you misunderstood the spirit of what I was trying to say. I'll be the most clear I can: You cannot proceed beyond the tisral til (third eye) without sufficient concentration of the attention energies. And attachment to outer things, be they pleasure, pain, worry, or distraction, dilutes concentration such that it is impossible to achieve even this level of focus.

An analogy will be helpful here. There is nothing wrong with a child playing. But if the child will not come inside to eat and sleep, they will perish. How does this apply to the spiritual seeker? I'm not trying to convince anyone who would rather enjoy the material plane of existence. By all means, do so. All I am saying is, for those who desire actual, real communion with God, among the first steps are concentration of the attention energy which requires a certain degree of detachment from the outside world. Repeat: it is not the actual objects themselves, it is the attachment to them that prevents ascension (enlightenment).

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me. I get great pleasure out of feeling warm sunshine on my face. If for some reason I was suddenly denied ever feeling that sensation again I would definitely miss it. In fact, if it were taken away and I didn't miss it that suggests that I didn't really get any pleasure out of it at all, that it was just a neutral sensation and that feeling warn sunshine on my face is no different to me than not feeling warm sunshine on my face.

What you feel is a human feeling, spiritual cultivation and religion are about getting away from human existence and become like heavenly beings (Gods, Buddhas and so on) They have no earthly cravings, but are filled with compassion.