If he needs a drug to think then he has a problem right there
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A DMT trip report.
- Thread starter Father Heathen
- Start date
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
That's the problem I have with religious use of drugs...
If what is being experienced is real, then it should be accessible without using the substance.
Its a problem i have with drugs, period.
Howard Is
Lucky Mud
If you find a way to do this naturally...
...you will be the most famous yogi of all time.
I am not promoting or endorsing DMT or LSD, but the idea that the same state could be achieved naturally is simply naive. Not that you could be expected to know that. But this MRI should give some indication.
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HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
Well, he called himself a “secular atheist” said it made him question his world view but that questioning went from not knowing what is going on to knowing he doesn’t know what’s going. That doesn’t strike me as any kind of significant shift nor a move away from “secular atheism”.
He also opened by saying he wasn’t extrapolating or mapping any specific belief system on to his experiences but obviously everything he described was inevitably defined and shaped by general western theology, regardless of whether than was conscious or not.
In general terms, I’m not sure what reported experiences under the influence of brain-altering chemicals can tell us other than how those chemicals can alter the brain.
Some time has elapsed since I viewed the video, but I seem to recall one message received as being love and consciousness. I can't comment on the latter but I do have issues with the former, as I do with the general message espoused by some religions. Where is the love for the vast majority of non-human life - the predators and predated, from the very smallest up to our nearest cousins? Not much love shown here. We are supposed to be exceptional perhaps (but meat-eaters also, so predators just as much)? What does that mean for all the other non-human life - that we should just accept their existence as being just different from ours (on a lower level?) or that we should do something about it?
I've never felt the need to take recreational drugs, and although I can see the value so many place in them, I think they do as much harm as any benefits they seemingly bring - much like religions.
I've never felt the need to take recreational drugs, and although I can see the value so many place in them, I think they do as much harm as any benefits they seemingly bring - much like religions.
Perhaps this kind of research is useful in understanding the architecture of the brain, especially combined with brain scans and knowledge about the physical workings of the drugs. Maybe there's even benefit for people having brain dysfunction. None of this should be attempted except under the supervision and direction of psychologists and researchers.
I think about the 1960s and all the amazing claims of drug use. Now, I wonder how many of those people are half-crazed and homeless on the streets?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Thank you for your insightful, thought provoking contribution to the discussion.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
It's my understanding that he sought the art afterward that best reflected his experiences.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
How did you ascertian this from the video?
I ascertained this from the thread title
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I understand that the topic is controversial and tends to elicit strong emotions and knee-jerk reactions, but they don't make for very interesting conversation.
Howard Is
Lucky Mud
How about “Do psychedelics prove we are biologically wired for spiritual experiences ?”
Then we could discuss the neurophysiological basis of gnosis.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Agreed. Except coffee... That's fuel.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The Remarkable Brains of Long-Term Meditators - Mindful
It doesn't show the brain scan, but this is the example I had in mind. I'll keep looking for something graphical to compare with what you provided. I'll send you a PM if I find something cogent.
The other thing that stuck out to me is, the experience is very dream like. Interpreting dreams is tricky because anything that is significant is blended in with everything else. What I'm saying is: More brain activity is not necessarily a good thing.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I had a very similar general impression about the repeated comments about feeling "love". It would make more sense if he said he felt "loved". But I kept asking myself: " OK, what does this 'love' feel like?"Some time has elapsed since I viewed the video, but I seem to recall one message received as being love and consciousness. I can't comment on the latter but I do have issues with the former, as I do with the general message espoused by some religions. Where is the love for the vast majority of non-human life - the predators and predated, from the very smallest up to our nearest cousins? Not much love shown here. We are supposed to be exceptional perhaps (but meat-eaters also, so predators just as much)? What does that mean for all the other non-human life - that we should just accept their existence as being just different from ours (on a lower level?) or that we should do something about it?
I've never felt the need to take recreational drugs, and although I can see the value so many place in them, I think they do as much harm as any benefits they seemingly bring - much like religions.
The worst is life, everyone is addicted and too much always kills
Howard Is
Lucky Mud
If you like coffee, try theacrine or methylliberine. They are naturally occurring variants of caffeine, but much better. Focus, clarity and mood elevation with no jitters.
Another good one is DMPEA (dimethyl phenethylamine). It is also a naturally occurring compound, found in the plant eria jarensis. It is very similar in structure and effect to amphetamine (alpha methyl phenethylamine). It is used by the food industry as a flavour agent (that’s their story anyway...).
BTW, phenethylamine is the first metabolic product of the amino phenylalanine. It is the body’s natural amphetamine, but has a very short half life because it is quickly removed by MAO-B. The added methyl group blocks the action of MAO-B, which gives it a half life of around six hours.
In other words, amphetamine is virtually identical to endogenous phenethylamine except for its duration. Phenethylamine is released naturally during orgasm, or while engaged in focused creative work.
I have to wonder about the food industry using DMPEA for flavouring. It tastes horrible. Go figure...
Another way to block MAO-B is avena sativa. Oats. The greens contain an MAO-B inhibitor.
Another excellent alternative to coffee is ephedra (Mormon tea, or ‘whorehouse tea). I know where there are acres of it growing in Melbourne. It contains various CNS stimulants. The Chinese version, ephedra sinensis, is controlled because of its high ephedrine content, which is a precursor to various illegal stimulants, but other species, such as the version growing around Melbourne, are kosher. And very effective. Way better than coffee.
There are others too. Maybe I’ll start a thread on groovy legal drugs. There are plenty out there.
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Howard Is
Lucky Mud
I have been a meditator for fifty years.
On occasions, particularly in long retreats, one does experience psychedelic states.
I was taught thogal, which is a development of ‘sky gazing’ meditation. Thogal definitely precipitates altered states.
So I do have some perspective on the subject.
I would say more, but...you know...there are rules.