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Featured A defense for and proof for Christianity

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    You really don’t understand, do you! Simply going about making assumptions and calling out institutions in the name of “reason,” while your own arguments are ... unreasonable. YOU don’t find value in it, so there’s no “reasonable” explanation for anyone else finding value in it, either. There must be some skeleton in your spiritual closet to cause this much umbrage on your part.

    At any rate, we’re not here either to provide counseling or to be a punching bag for your spiritual frustrations. Until, therefore, your arguments become valid and reasonable, they’re an annoyance, much like a fart in an elevator — and just about as useful to honest converse.
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    You’re barking up the wrong tree — at least as far as my own experience is concerned — and that if people whom I know. Why would (or should) one need evidence for mythic constructs? Aren’t the search for meaning and the fostering of kindness valuable without having to “prove” the FSM?
     
  3. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Your one-track hunt is, perhaps valid for those who are literalists. For people like me, it’s merely an irritating rabbit hole. Not all religion is defined by a literalist approach to Divinity. I have yet to hear your meaty argument against more intuitive approaches. In those cases, your argument here is rather vapid.
     
  4. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    So, to summarize, your apologetic consists of: “Xy does some nice things.” If that’s the case, I don’t think there’s any arguing against that statement. While true, though, “some nice things” is not the only, or even, IMO, the best defense for Xy. But it’s a beginning.
     
  5. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Hinduism dressed up in drag as Buddhism believes in the Supernatural. Just to clarify.
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I think any source for hope and support are invaluable. Some churches are pretty good at that sort of thing; others fail abysmally.
     
  7. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I think you need to reprise your understanding of the word “supernatural.” Not all Christian theological constructs are concerned with anything outside the natural world.
     
  8. Joseph Quinn

    Joseph Quinn Member

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    Having inevitably had you rant, you still have the burden of proof to resolve. I know you cannot do that. Still, if false consolation is your harbour, you are well inclined to weigh anchor there. Copying and pasting other people's comments and passing them off as your own is so obvious, unless of course you have spontaneously developed the ability to form a sentence. Not quite a miracle, and just a susceptible to inquiry. Now, if you can contain your vitriol and demonstrate any evidence you are welcome to try. Reading your innuendo and hurt feelings writ large, it is at least consistent with the behaviour of the faithful. They claim a higher purpose and yet still struggle to remain civil when their illusions are challenged.
     
  9. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Yeah, knew you just couldn’t be the bigger person and admit you were wrong. You’re STILL wrong in your assumptions. You still know nothing about my theological stance, and yet you blithely go on asking for “evidence.” And then call my emotional health into question. How typical of the self-aggrandizement of the “I-live-in-the-real-world” atheist. You couldn’t be more obvious if you were a hooker on a street corner, and possibly less scrupulous.

    There IS no “burden of proof,” because I haven’t claimed ANYTHING to be in existence, other than my own search for meaning.

    Did I claim a “higher purpose.” No, I claimed a human purpose. If I was uncivil it was in response to your demeaning assumptions of some guilt on my part, for which you still have no evidence, other than assumption.

    Your self-assumed superiority here is an all too obvious mask for your own shame at having been called out. Everyone here with a brain stem can see it.

    Have any other cards to play other than “evidence?” Because this isn’t that card game. I’d love to see some creativity in your argument arsenal. Because all you’re giving me here is boredom.
     
  10. Joseph Quinn

    Joseph Quinn Member

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    Oh dear. The myopia is embarrassing. The accusations and assumptions are all yours. Ignore the necessary integrity of proving a claim if you must, whilst demeaning those who seek real answers.. Clearly you have weighed anchor and are content with your false consolations. Truth is not derived from revelation or mythical woo. As for creativity, that's the preserve of those whose casuistry and solipsism keep faith a topic of discussion in the material world.
     
  11. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Your wrong about UU it is not a Christan church anymore. Its not just that Atheists attend. UU no has a process where some UUs have a dominant religion or theme. That means they celebrate the religions of one specific religion they use rituals for that one religion and they preach a lot of topics for that one religion.

    Others who are Atheist or another religiona re welcome and they come and do not participate in the rituals , but the sermon is something that can be applied to all religions. One of the types of churches is Atheist and those churches don't celebrate holidays and do not have ritauls they address Atheist issues.

    So some UUs are nothing but all Atheist, you are wrong again! I was in a Pagan church it was all PAgans and we did not have any Christians there. You are so far off base UU is not a Christian denomination and unless you are attending a church is egotistical for you to speak for the UU church sense you don't have first hand knowledge that I do. Its ignorant.
     
  12. Joseph Quinn

    Joseph Quinn Member

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    You would need to demonstrate the claim that the sermon is something that can be applied to all religions. I sincerely doubt that, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll await the text of a sermon before I point out the obvious inane fatuity of your claim.
     
  13. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    To have faith is to move mountains.
     
  14. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I was a member there for 11 years I do not have to explain or prove but if you google Pagan UUs or Atheist UUs you'll find it. But I went to the church for years and speak from personal hands on experience therefore proof is not required.

    Information for Pagan style UUs and Atheist UUs are on the net and easy to find but you have never been to a UU church and therefore are making claims about UU you know nothing about. I have personal experience and do not need to prove to you anything .

    Its wrong for you to assume you know more about a church when you have no personal experience and assume you know more then a member, its really egotistical.
     
  15. Joseph Quinn

    Joseph Quinn Member

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    More unsubstantiated drivel. However, should you wish to evidence this claim, feel free.
     
  16. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I have not found the Atheist communities yet but here is proof you are wrong about UUs being a Christian church BTW there are Atheists who go to Pagan churches and believe in the philosophy and teachings of the Gods and Godesses without believing in the Gods and Godesses.

    There are lots of Buddhist Atheists as well as Pagan Atheists. Actually China is regarded as an Atheist country itself which makes me think you know very little about atheism.

    Here's the page to CUUPS the organization for Pagan UU churches.
    Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans
     
  17. Joseph Quinn

    Joseph Quinn Member

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    I asked for a copy of the sermon, not the manifesto (which isn't new to me). Remind me again about your ignorance of the terms deism and theism? If you have anything to add that is novel, feel free. Lectures on China and the activities of people who claim one philosophical position whilst demonstrating another is your conundrum, not mine. I can attend, and indeed have attended, many religious services. So what? I do not claim to believe the illusion, superstition and lies I hear whilst there. So, as a recap - a copy of a sermon please. When in receipt I will show how your claim that the sermon can be acceptable to all religions remains, and always will, inane fatuity. A corollary correction. The UU was founded on liberal Christian theology. Nowadays it is a one-stop collection of the confused, the eternal seeker, the spiritual but not religious, and ever other term of woo available. They remain tax exempt because they are a registered religion.
     
  18. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    FRom Wiki
    Unitarian Universalism (UU)[2][3][4] is a liberal religion characterized by a "free and responsible search for truth and meaning".[5][6]Unitarian Universalists assert no creed, but instead are unified by their shared search for spiritual growth. As such, their congregations include many atheists, agnostics, and theists within their membership. The roots of Unitarian Universalism lie in liberal Christianity, specifically Unitarianism and universalism. Unitarian Universalists state that from these traditions comes a deep regard for intellectual freedom and inclusive love. Congregations and members seek inspiration and derive insight from all major world religions.[7]

    The beliefs of individual Unitarian Universalists range widely, including atheism, agnosticism, pantheism, deism, Judaism, Islam,[8]Christianity, neopaganism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Humanism, and many more.[9]

    The Unitarian Universalist Association (UUA) was formed in 1961 through the consolidation of the American Unitarian Association, established in 1825, and the Universalist Church of America,[10] established in 1793. The UUA is headquartered in Boston, Massachusetts, and serves churches mostly in the United States. A group of thirty Philippine congregations is represented as a sole member within the UUA. The Canadian Unitarian Council (CUC) became an independent body in 2002.[11] The UUA and CUC are, in turn, two of the seventeen members of the International Council of Unitarians and Universalists.[12]

    Contents
     
  19. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Sermon from UU If you don't accept this I will assume your not smart enough to argue with anymore.

     
  20. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    The myopia’s all yours, mate.
    I’M NOT. MAKING. A. CLAIM. I don’t know how much plainer I can put it for you. I’m not arguing for the existence of God. How in the world can someone make a claim for somethng they’re not claiming? The “accusations and assumptions” are yours and you may as well own up to them, because they’re out there for all to see.

    Reading back over your posts, I don’t find any evidence that you are “seeking real answers.” I find that you’re making assumptions about everyone who makes a faith claim. Clearly, your claim of “weighing anchor” is projection, and, I believe, in an intentionally provocative way. Your accusations of “casuistry” and “solipsism” are, likewise hyperbolic and provocative. And untrue.

    I’ve got your number. And you know it. So does everyone else.
     
    #60 sojourner, Sep 29, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
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