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A couple related questions.

Karl R

Active Member
I have a couple questions regarding something I read in the Baha'i overview:

Baha'i Overview said:
Bahá'ís often refer to this concept as "Progressive Revelation", which simply means that God is revealed to mankind progressively, as we mature and are able to comprehend the purpose of God in creating humanity.

I find this concept fascinating. I interpret this as saying that religions evolve over time. New religions are just another step in the evolutionary process. Is this a correct way of interpreting this concept?

Assuming that assumption is correct, does that mean that Baha'i see their faith tradition as evolving currently and into the future?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Karl R said:
I have a couple questions regarding something I read in the Baha'i overview:



I find this concept fascinating. I interpret this as saying that religions evolve over time. New religions are just another step in the evolutionary process. Is this a correct way of interpreting this concept?

Assuming that assumption is correct, does that mean that Baha'i see their faith tradition as evolving currently and into the future?

I found it fascinating too. Religions is revealed like an evolutionary process, I quite agree. When we have progressed enough, POOF! a new Revelation founds a new religion, and it teaches us MORE while basing itself on what has been revealed in the past.

Not only do we see it as evolving, but we believe that in the future, Baha`u'llah will be followed by ANOTHER Manifestation of God Who will teach us further of what God wants us to know.

Regards,
Scott
 

barnabus

Member
John 14:6-"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

With all respect, what is the Baha'i interpretation of this passage?
 

finalfrogo

Well-Known Member
Karl R said:
I have a couple questions regarding something I read in the Baha'i overview:



I find this concept fascinating. I interpret this as saying that religions evolve over time. New religions are just another step in the evolutionary process. Is this a correct way of interpreting this concept?

Assuming that assumption is correct, does that mean that Baha'i see their faith tradition as evolving currently and into the future?

When I learned about the Baha'i faith, I also found their basic fundamental beliefs very unique.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
barnabus said:
John 14:6-"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

With all respect, what is the Baha'i interpretation of this passage?

We accept that Jesus was a Manifestation of God. When he said what He said about the way, the truth and the life, He was speaking truth; but ALL of the Manifestations have said the same thing. Because They all spoke with the same Voice, and gave a message from the same Source. they ALL were right.

Jesus also said: "I have many things to tell you but you cannot bear them now." When Muhammad spoke that is just what He did - same for the Bab, same for Baha`u'llah.

Regards,
Scott
 

barnabus

Member
We accept that Jesus was a Manifestation of God. When he said what He said about the way, the truth and the life, He was speaking truth; but ALL of the Manifestations have said the same thing. Because They all spoke with the same Voice, and gave a message from the same Source. they ALL were right.

Jesus also said: "I have many things to tell you but you cannot bear them now." When Muhammad spoke that is just what He did - same for the Bab, same for Baha`u'llah.

The statement of Jesus is a little to exclusive for what you imply. Furthermore, in other chapters He warns against the false prophets.

"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."-Matt 24:5

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."-Matt 24:5


I apologize if I am rude, but my question is simply, in the face of the exclusive teachings of Christ, how can you add other mutually exclusive teachings?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
barnabus said:
The statement of Jesus is a little to exclusive for what you imply. Furthermore, in other chapters He warns against the false prophets.

"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."-Matt 24:5

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."-Matt 24:5


I apologize if I am rude, but my question is simply, in the face of the exclusive teachings of Christ, how can you add other mutually exclusive teachings?

You're not rude so far, anyway. Jesus gives us very particular methods for discerning a false prophet does He not? You are seeming to proof-text a little bit and take his references to false prophets out of context.

"

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. " Matthew 7

"37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. 42And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward."
Matthew 10

Baha`u'llah is the Spiritual Return of Christ, by our tenets and His appearance did not come until all three of the promises Jesus made were fulfilled:
1) The Gospel taught unto all the nations ( a major announcement of the International Missionary Association at their 1840 conclave)
2) The end of the desolation of abomination (1844 AD is the end according to the enumeration of time in the Book of Daniel)
3) The return of the Jews to Jerusalem (The Toleration Edict of 1843 AD).

This is what Baha`i's generally accept as to the reason that the Bab declared in May of 1844 AD. This also fulfilled the prophecies of the year 1260 AH in the Muslim calendar. 1844 AD=1260 AH.

If you have further questions lay'em on.

Regards,
Scott
 

barnabus

Member
Well said.

But is it not written, in Chapter 24 of Matthew,


27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now then, if Baha`u'llah is truly the Spiritual Return of Christ, would we even have to speculate his authority?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
barnabus said:
Well said.

But is it not written, in Chapter 24 of Matthew,


27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now then, if Baha`u'llah is truly the Spiritual Return of Christ, would we even have to speculate his authority?

One of the reasons Jesus was sent was to judge between "the quick and the dead". In His FIRST coming He did that - those who chose to follow were the "quick" in a spiritual sense, those who did not were "dead" in a spiritual sense. He reiterated this when he told the would-be follower to follow him NOW and let "the dead bury the dead". Obviously corpses cannot bury corpses so it must have been a metaphorical thing to let the"spiritually dead" tend to the physically dead's burial.

If the purpose of a Manifestation such as Jesus Christ is to judge between the spiritually living and the spiritually dead, why would those who livew during Christ's return have so much easier a spiritual choice to make if He descends from the clouds with angels singing in such a way that His return MUST BE FROM 'HEAVEN'. All free choice, all the commands to let those with eyes see and those with ears hear, would be tossed aside.

In other words the circumstances of the second coming will be the same as the first. The same responsibility to "watch" and "be ready" would be made unnecessary.

I have direct quotes from my scripture about this very paradigm if you wish to see them, I will post them, but if you wish to stick to the Gospels for proofs we'll have to do it the hard way.

Regards,
Scott
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
barnabus said:
This is of a great interest to me, please explain, if you will.

Okay some stuff from my writings:
"The resurrections of the Divine Manifestations are not of the body. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and have no connection with material things. For example, there is the subject of Christ's coming from heaven: it is clearly stated in many places in the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He will go to heaven. So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it is written: "For I came down from heaven"; and also in verse 42 we find: "And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?" Also in John, chapter 3, verse 13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
Observe that it is said, "The Son of man is in heaven," while at that time Christ was on earth. Notice also that it is said that Christ came from heaven, though He came from the womb of Mary, and His body was born of Mary. It is clear, then, that when it is said that the Son of man is come from heaven, this has not an outward but an inward signification; it is a spiritual, not a material, fact. The meaning is that though, apparently, Christ was born from 104 the womb of Mary, in reality He came from heaven, from the center of the Sun of Reality, from the Divine World, and the Spiritual Kingdom. And as it has become evident that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the Divine Kingdom, therefore, His disappearance under the earth for three days has an inner signification and is not an outward fact. In the same way, His resurrection from the interior of the earth is also symbolical; it is a spiritual and divine fact, and not material; and likewise His ascension to heaven is a spiritual and not material ascension."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 103)

"Likewise the address of the angels to the people of Galilee, "That this Christ will return in the same way and that He will descend from heaven," is a spiritual address. For when Christ appeared, He came from heaven, although He was outwardly born from the womb of Mary. For He said: "No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven."
He said: "I came down from heaven and likewise will go to heaven." By "heaven" is not meant this infinite phenomenal space, but "heaven" signifies the word of the divine kingdom which is the supreme station and seat of the Sun of Truth."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 192)

"The text of the Gospel states that He came from heaven although outwardly from the matrix of the mother. The meaning is that the Divine Reality of Christ was from heaven, but the body was born of Mary.
Therefore He came according to the prophecies of the Holy Book and likewise according to natural law; His Reality from heaven; His body earthly. As He came before, so must He come this time in the same way. But some arise with objections saying, "We must have literal proof of this through the senses."
711. The Reality of Christ was always in heaven and will always be. This is the intention of the text of the Gospel. For while His Holiness Jesus Christ walked upon the earth, He said, "The Son of Man is in heaven." Therefore holding to literal interpretation and visible fulfilment of the text of the Holy Books is simply imitation of ancestral forms and beliefs. For when we perceive the Reality of Christ these texts and statements become clear and perfectly reconcilable with each other. Unless we perceive the Reality we cannot understand the meanings of the Holy Books, for these meanings are symbolical and spiritual, such as, for instance, the raising of Lazarus which has spiritual interpretation.
We must first establish the fact that the Power of God is infinite, unlimited and that it is within the Power to accomplish anything.
712. Secondly, we must understand the interpretation of Christ's words concerning "the dead." A certain disciple came to His Holiness and asked permission to go and bury his father. His Holiness answered, "Let the dead bury their dead." Therefore Christ designated as "dead" some who were still living; that is, let the living "dead," the spiritually "dead," bury their father. They were dead because they were not believers in Christ. Although physically alive they were dead spiritually. This is the meaning of Christ's words, "That which is born of flesh is flesh; that which is born of spirit is spirit." He meant that those who were simply born of the human body were dead spiritually, while those quickened by the breaths of the Holy Spirit were living, eternally alive. These are the interpretations of Christ 381 Himself. Reflect upon them and the meanings of the Holy Books will become clear as the sun at mid-day.
713. The Holy Books have their special terminologies which must be known and understood. Physicians have their own peculiar terms, architects, philosophers have their characteristic expressions; poets have their phrases, and scientists their terminologies. In the Scripture we read the Zion is dancing. It is evident that this has other than literal interpretation. The meaning is that the people of Zion through great joy shall rejoice. The Jews said, Christ was not Messiah but Anti-Christ, because one of the signs of the Messiah's coming was the dancing of Mount Zion, which had to yet come to pass. In reality, when His Holiness appeared, not only Mount Zion but all Palestine danced and rejoiced. Again in the Scriptures it is said, "The trees shall clap their hands." This is symbolical. There are terms and expressions of usage in every language which cannot be taken literally. For instance, in Oriental countries it is customary to say, "When my friend entered the house, the doors and walls began to sing and dance." In Persia they say, "Get at the head," meaning engage in the matter according to its own terms and usages. All these have other and inner meanings."
(Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 380)

Regards,
Scott
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Hi, Barnabus!

As has already been pointed out, most if not all the Divine Messengers have issued exactly the same sort of "but by Me" statement as Jesus did! And we accept all these statements as true because it is only through the Holy Spirit that invests these Messengers that we can come to know God! (I can post these other quotes if you'd like to see them.)

Further, if you're going to condemn the Baha'i Faith for not literally fulfilling the prophecies about the Second Coming, you'll also have to condemn Christianity for not literally fulfilling the Old Testament prophecies about the First Coming (the very reason the Jews rejected Christ)! (Was He named Emmanual, for example? And did the whole earth see His Advent together?) So at least you'll be in good company....

Another thing you need to remember is that while there have indeed been false Christs, there have also been true ones! And the Founder of the Baha'i Faith, Baha'u'llah, clearly PASSES the critical test in First John 4:2 of who is and is not of God!

Do keep the questions coming; we're loving this! :)

Peace,

Bruce
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
I dont know when I will be back to look at this, but, do all these messengers never contradict each other? Like Mohammad's teachings were a bit different on some things than Christ's and some the same. But the Koran teaches Jesus did not die, where the Bible teaches that is the very reason He came and the tomb was empty. Anyway, just a thot, but that is from a very fundamental, Bible-only Christian, who you probably know will not change, as I see a new age of all religions trying to unite into what I believe to be a false religion where all religions are 'right'. But, Jesus said we are save by His BLOOD, and nothing else. So, I am a Christian. Sorry to write that on the Bahai Forum, I mean no disrespect, just my thots at the moment. I enjoy reading some of your posts, except they can be very long sometimes, lol.
Mike
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
I dont know when I will be back to look at this, but, do all these messengers never contradict each other? Like Mohammad's teachings were a bit different on some things than Christ's and some the same. But the Koran teaches Jesus did not die, where the Bible teaches that is the very reason He came and the tomb was empty. Anyway, just a thot, but that is from a very fundamental, Bible-only Christian, who you probably know will not change, as I see a new age of all religions trying to unite into what I believe to be a false religion where all religions are 'right'. But, Jesus said we are save by His BLOOD, and nothing else. So, I am a Christian. Sorry to write that on the Bahai Forum, I mean no disrespect, just my thots at the moment. I enjoy reading some of your posts, except they can be very long sometimes, lol.
Mike

The Qur'an says Christ's Spirit was taken up to God while He was on the cross, which I believe too. All that was left was the dead body which is, after all, just dust. Actually, I think that when He came the Priests and authorities of the time had just the same opportunity to accept and follow Him that everyone else had, but because they perceived Him a threat to their own prestige, power, authority and livelihood, they chose not to do so. So the purpose of Christ coming when and where He did did not mean that He had to die to fulfill His purpose. That ws an act of choice by His enemies. His purpose was to fulfill the will of God.

Regards,
Scott
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
Jesus said he came to die for us.

Jesus had a lot to say on why He was there, I don't believe He said He had to die to accomplish His purpose.
  1. Luke 6:9
    Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
    Luke 6:8-10 (in Context) Luke 6 (Whole Chapter)
  2. John 6:35
    And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
    John 6:34-36 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
  3. John 6:53
    Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
    John 6:52-54 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
  4. John 8:12
    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
    John 8:11-13 (in Context) John 8 (Whole Chapter)
  5. John 11:25
    Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    John 11:24-26 (in Context) John 11 (Whole Chapter)
  6. John 13:38
    Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.
    John 13:37-39 (in Context) John 13 (Whole Chapter)
  7. John 14:6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    John 14:5-7 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter)
  8. John 17:3
    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
    John 17:2-4 (in Context) John 17 (Whole Chapter)
  9. John 20:31
    But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
    John 20:30-32 (in Context) John 20 (Whole Chapter)
Regards,
Scott
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
(King James Bible, John)



3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(King James Bible, John)
10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
(King James Bible, John)
11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
(King James Bible, John)
12:7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.
12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.
12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
12:29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
(King James Bible, John)
12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
(King James Bible, John)
13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.
14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(King James Bible, John)

Okay, this is just a bit from John, in Jesus' words, and does not begin to scratch the surface of the fact, that Jesus had to come to die for our sins, and if we accept His death for payment of our sins, we are saved, and if we do not accept His death for payment of our sins we 'are condemned already', having no payment for our sins but paying them ourselves. Jesus is the ONLY name given under Heaven by which man may be saved, this is what the Bible says, and what He says, He says He is the door and anyone who tries to get in any other way will not get in. That is also in John. This is the gospel, there is no other.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
(King James Bible, John)



3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(King James Bible, John)
10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
(King James Bible, John)
11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
(King James Bible, John)
12:7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.
12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.
12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
12:29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
(King James Bible, John)
12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
(King James Bible, John)
13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.
14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(King James Bible, John)

Okay, this is just a bit from John, in Jesus' words, and does not begin to scratch the surface of the fact, that Jesus had to come to die for our sins, and if we accept His death for payment of our sins, we are saved, and if we do not accept His death for payment of our sins we 'are condemned already', having no payment for our sins but paying them ourselves. Jesus is the ONLY name given under Heaven by which man may be saved, this is what the Bible says, and what He says, He says He is the door and anyone who tries to get in any other way will not get in. That is also in John. This is the gospel, there is no other.

By this point in time, it was obvious to all that the Sanhedrin and Jesus were on a collision course, but still, the night of His arrest He begs God to take the "cup from my lips", so He is reconciled but still prayerful that itwill not come to pass.

Regards,
Scott
 
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